D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24

[Bae'zel]

...
This is such an incredibly asinine complaint. If you want your warlock to know who their patron is from first level, there is absolutely no reason you can’t still do that.
...

There's plenty of arguably solid critiques out there for the 5e system. But complaining about fluff? Like, sure, the Warlock's main abilities tied to their patron kick off at level 3... but so do so many other abilities from other classes. If you want Warlocks to know who their patrons are from level 1... just take a pen and cross out that sentence or two implying otherwise.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Maybe the author has a deal coming up with Pathfinder or another new RPG.

I think it's clear he's sincerely realizing that modern D&D isn't for him.

That happens all the time, without anyone having a commercial consideration playing into things.

As has been said many times, this is a golden age for RPGs. Everyone should find the game they want to play instead of feeling they have to settle for something they don't enjoy.

I think it's unlikely that Keith won't find people willing to play whatever game he ends up clicking with.

 

[Bae'zel]

I think it's clear he's sincerely realizing that modern D&D isn't for him.

That happens all the time, without anyone having a commercial consideration playing into things.

As has been said many times, this is a golden age for RPGs. Everyone should find the game they want to play instead of feeling they have to settle for something they don't enjoy.

I think it's unlikely that Keith won't find people willing to play whatever game he ends up clicking with.

Yeah for sure, why lament one game when there are thousands of other ones out there? With big markets too, if financial considerations are important (ie, publishing books that will sell well).

 

[Charlaquin]

That is what Keith’s post read like to me, that 2024 leaned into epic fantasy moreso than 2014 and to the detriment of everything else, and I do agree with that trend, 2014 was slightly more grounded than 2024, even if not by much

I just don’t think it’s an accurate observation. 5.14 already made it very difficult to set the game in a believably low-fantasy world. I don’t see 5.24 having made a difference either way on that matter.

 

[Parmandur]

There's plenty of arguably solid critiques out there for the 5e system. But complaining about fluff? Like, sure, the Warlock's main abilities tied to their patron kick off at level 3... but so do so many other abilities from other classes. If you want Warlocks to know who their patrons are from level 1... just take a pen and cross out that sentence or two implying otherwise.

There is honestly no suggestion that a Level 1 Warlock shouldn't have their Level 3 choice planned out fluff-wise, and both the PHB and DMG explicitly suggest in multiple places that anyone familiar with D&D should just start their Campaigns ar Level 3 or 4...Level 1-3 is essentially the training wheels stage the rules assume players will skip.

 

[Parmandur]

I get some of what he says, but he expends a lot of words in the longest paragraph of your quote complaining about NPCs with ability scores of 18-20. PC ability scores have gone to 20 for three whole editions now (heck, four editions if you count Dark Sun); that's over 25 (or 34) years now, isn't it past time to get used to that? Why should NPCs not get the same treatment? And what about the gladiator (Str 18) and the archmage (Int 20) in the Monster Manual published in 2014? Did he have the same problem back then?

This is very odd to me. Despise calling it a bedrock of D&D design, I don’t think ability scores have corresponded to the range of human capability since AD&D. There’s the general idea that lower numbers are worse and higher numbers are better, and that most human(oid)s have somewhere around 8-12 as a baseline, with higher or lower scores than that representing exceptional (or exceptionally poor) abilities. But 3e moved away from having the scale be as specific and rigidly defined as he’s suggesting here, and D&D has never looked back from that.

Yeah, the simulationist importance of the 3-18 bellcurve basically died when the game abandoned using a d20 test to roll under the Ability number for action resolution instead of a d20 roll high test.

 

[Charlaquin]

There is honestly no suggestion that a Level 1 Warlock shouldn't have their Level 3 choice planned out fluff-wise, and both the PHB and DMG explicitly suggest in multiple places that anyone familiar with D&D should just start their Campaigns ar Level 3 or 4...Level 1-3 is essentially the training wheels stage the rules assume players will skip.

Why anyone would want to skip them, I don’t know. The early tiers are the most fun in my opinion, why would you want to shorten the time you spend in them? The higher level you start at, the faster you reach those oft-maligned high tiers where the scope and scale of the challenge has to change dramatically because the PCs have access to world-altering power.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah for sure, why lament one game when there are thousands of other ones out there?

Well, he's communicating with his blog audience who are there for 5E monster posts and explaining that things may be changing. It was not intended as an ENWorld posting.

 

[Parmandur]

Why anyone would want to skip them, I don’t know. The early tiers are the most fun in my opinion, why would you want to shorten the time you spend in them? The higher level you start at, the faster you reach those oft-maligned high tiers where the scope and scale of the challenge has to change dramatically because the PCs have access to world-altering power.

Tier 2 is arguably the sweet spot, where PCs are pretty pitent but not insanely so, but I would say Tier 1 is fun, as well. But starting at Level 4, everyone has their Class abd Subclass fully online, plus both Background and General Feats. So starting at Level 4 offers more distinct build opportunities.

 

[DEFCON 1]

WRONG. Everyone plays MY way, or they shall be made to SUFFER. You know, the usual.

You're right, I'm sorry. I forgot that part.

Wait... how do you play again?