D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24

5e14 and 5e,24 don't use the same design paradigm. The only use the same design benchmarks and under a different names.

That's probably the biggest change between the two versions of the edition
Monsters are still fairly generalist despite stepping from mediocre at all to often generally functional
I wouldn't call them specialists capable of working together to challenge specialist PCs given how much of that step can be exclusively attributed to the updated encounter building rules
 

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Personally, when it comes to designing a setting, removing access to certain classes, ancestries, altering equipment, changing how magic works... None of that is done with "punishing players" as the motive- it's done in service of evoking certain themes and creating a world, using the tools at hand. Does it mean that some assumptions have to change and it requires some adaptation to the new world and its rules? Yeah. But I'm NEVER making a campaign setting just to "stick it to the players."
Yeah, but how often does that work in reverse? You make things easier for players? Add new options without taking something away? Make abilities and spells more powerful? In 2e, I think the only setting that added more than it removed was Faerun and people used to call it a munchkin's paradise.
 

Which is why there's no real point to playing D&D unless you're looking for that specific blend as interpreted through WotC's lens. (Or if you've sold your soul to WotC and are now committed to furthering the dominion of the One Brand to Rule Them All, I suppose ... ;) )
I mean, yeah.

There is no point to playing any game you don't like. I wouldn't play Edge of the Empire if WEG d6 is my favorite Star Wars. The market is so full of D&D clones,d20 games, and inspired by games (for nearly every edition) that if you don't like WotCs current brew, find one you like. We are lousy for choices thanks to open gaming.
 


RE- People not reading the rules when they run the game and getting confused by monster blocks - I want to share what may be an illustrative example from my most recent session. I am a first-time DM.

The party met a couple Shadows.

Here's the 2024 Shadow stat block:
shadow.png


I took note of the Shadow's many status Immunities, and the effects of their attack. I correctly assumed their BA Hide would be irrelevant because the encounter is in a small room and the players carry lights.

The relevance of the Shadow's ability scores or modifiers to my prep is zero, because I'm really leaning on the official adventure module to provide appropriate challenges.

My party has a great strategy for all the undead on this dungeon floor, which is that the Cleric runs into every room first. This helped with the Shadows too since the Cleric has high strength. I had the Shadows attack only him to see how much of his strength I could take before the Shadows were destroyed (is experimenting on PCs a form of DM malevolence?).

One of the other PCs used the Study action to see if she could discern anything about the Shadow's abilities, and with her roll I shared they are resistant to many types of elemental damage and that they are immune to many conditions. She replied, "Oh yeah, if I try to grapple this thing made of pure shadow, it probably won't go well for me?" and I nodded proudly at her.

The battle ended! The Shadows were defeated! The Cleric was at -6 to his Strength ability score (EDIT: his Strength ability score started at 15 and was now 9).

I looked at the stat block. And then I looked at my Cleric. And then I looked at the stat block. And I looked at my Cleric and I said, "Ummm yeah you defeated the Shadows and your Strength is restored!"

And all the players laughed and talked about how evil it would be if the Strength drain persisted...

After the session, I looked up what I was actually supposed to do in this situation:
  • The 2014 Shadow includes this note under Draining Swipe: "...the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest."
  • The 2024 rules state under the definition of Long Rest in the PHB Rules Glossary: "If any of your ability scores were reduced, they return to normal."
    • Short Rests do not include this benefit.
  • My conclusion is that I should have made the Cleric wait for a Long Rest to restore his strength. This is both a change to the text of the monster and a nerf to Short Rests as a potential cure to this particular ability, making the Shadow even more dangerous to encounter.
I don't see my misstep as a negative or the fault of the MM, it was just a learning experience. Now I know that ability score reductions can only be restored by Long Rests (in the absence of more specific text). I did read the PHB and DMG before running the game, but that characteristic of Long Rests made no impression on me, because I as a player have never encountered a stat reduction monster like the Shadow.

I believe other people have noted similar text reductions in MM blocks that no longer specify how to remove certain effects. The assumption is that a player will realize they have an appropriate spell (like Lesser or Greater Restoration, Dispel Evil and Good, etc.), or the DM will have the rule mastery needed to handle the situation. And if no one knows what's going on, we make something up and correct later as needed.

I think the danger here is incurious DMs not wanting to look up things that confuse them after the fact. And that may still be an issue in 2024's MM because of the removed text for a few effects.

The more experienced DM may realize in advance by looking at the stat block that there needs to be a resolution and go looking for more info as part of their prep. I did realize there was an issue with a Mummy on the same floor, who can curse people just by succeeding on a melee attack roll. So I had a resolution for the Mummy all prepped, but the Shadows slipped by me.
 
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On a different note I am surprised this blog makes no mention of the fun roll tables for monsters that can help a DM decide where a particular monster came from. Here's the one for Shadows:
shadow-table.png


I don't really use these because I am just running a module and the module describes where stuff comes from, but I think they are neat. They're all flavor and they're useful to help a DM make a quick decision when a player asks a lore question in-game.
 

I mean he could create supplemental products that make D&D more lower fantasy or whatever. Since so many proclaim D&D is a toolbox, then making some tools to change D&D into whatever style you desire should be doable; and even profitable.
can it theoretically be done, sure, but that does not mean it must be a great opportunity for him, You cannot just create low fantasy monsters and leave the rest unchanged, and when you change the rest you are no longer working in the 5e space but more in the OSR one. He would be better off creating his own 5e monsters or something imo than to create another OSR game.
 

On a different note I am surprised this blog makes no mention of the fun roll tables for monsters that can help a DM decide where a particular monster came from. Here's the one for Shadows:
The blog's Shadow is from 2014, which had no such table. The 2024 monsters are still in the works and will end up in his new book
 

Monsters are still fairly generalist despite stepping from mediocre at all to often generally functional
I wouldn't call them specialists capable of working together to challenge specialist PCs given how much of that step can be exclusively attributed to the updated encounter building rules
Neither are challenging specialists.

2014 prioritized simulationist looks.
2024 prioritized gamist benchmarks.

Neither focused on tactics. But one is easier to use to brute force specialized tactics due to predictability.
 

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