D&D General Hope and Fear In D&D

[Parmandur]

I think divorcing the two rolls prevents weirdness with the Advantage/Disadvantage system.

For example, say you succeed above a 10, and get Advantage. You roll 17 and 16. Going hard by the rules, you are supposed to take the higher number, so you got a "fear". But in some cases, the player would rather have a "open", and thus prefer the 16. Does the player get to pick? If the rolls were 17 and 8, could you choose the failing roll to avoid fear? I could probably manufacture a number of scenarios that aren't intended.

Keeping the hope/fear roll on a second die maintains the A/D system as intended. You could potentially also implement a second A/D system related to hope/fear, if desired.

One thing that Cosmere does with the Plot Due is all low the player to choose if Adv/Disadv will apply to the D20, a damage die, or the plot die...and that allows for stacking a/d, too. And situations where a player will choose a Complication on the Plot Die to allow a success on a d20 test that would otherwise fail...turning the Complication into a partial triumph.

 

[Reynard]

I think divorcing the two rolls prevents weirdness with the Advantage/Disadvantage system.

For example, say you succeed above a 10, and get Advantage. You roll 17 and 16. Going hard by the rules, you are supposed to take the higher number, so you got a "fear". But in some cases, the player would rather have a "open", and thus prefer the 16. Does the player get to pick? If the rolls were 17 and 8, could you choose the failing roll to avoid fear? I could probably manufacture a number of scenarios that aren't intended.

Keeping the hope/fear roll on a second die maintains the A/D system as intended. You could potentially also implement a second A/D system related to hope/fear, if desired.

I don't think the player can take the lower result on a roll with advantage.

 

[Horwath]

beat DC, you succeed at task, but some complication might happen
beat DC by 5, you succeed at task. no additional events
bead DC by 10, you succeed at task and some new opportunities happen
fail DC, you fail at task but might learn something new by doing it.
fail DC by 5, you fail at task. no additional events
fail DC by 10, you fail at task and some other catastrophe happens during the task.

this gives degrees and rewards good roll or high skill or maybe both. and opposite.

 

[Reynard]

beat DC, you succeed at task, but some complication might happen
beat DC by 5, you succeed at task. no additional events
bead DC by 10, you succeed at task and some new opportunities happen
fail DC, you fail at task but might learn something new by doing it.
fail DC by 5, you fail at task. no additional events
fail DC by 10, you fail at task and some other catastrophe happens during the task.

this gives degrees and rewards good roll or high skill or maybe both. and opposite.

As I stated upthread, I prefer the opportunity-complication axis to be independent of the fail-success axis. It is more interesting that way, IMO.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't think the player can take the lower result on a roll with advantage.

Not per standard, but that is a pretty minor house rule if desired...and introducing a second axis could make it advantageous.

 

[Reynard]

Not per standard, but that is a pretty minor house rule if desired...and introducing a second axis could make it advantageous.

But why would you want that?

 

[Laurefindel]

Not per standard, but that is a pretty minor house rule if desired...and introducing a second axis could make it advantageous.

It’s simpler to explain dis/advantage as pick lowest/pick highest because there aren’t any situation where picking the lowest voluntarily would be optimal in RaW, but I don’t think it’s against the spirit of Adv. to pick any of the two results instead of being forced to pick the highest

 

[SlyFlourish]

They already have a DC, and the d20 result is already a matter of luck rather than character skill. I narrate based on how widely they beat or miss the DC. As a bonus there are substantial stretches of results where they can just sort of have a normal, unremarkable success or failure.

I do this too. I'll narrate really bad "fail with fear" rolls when they roll very low or really good "succeed with hope". You could use close calls as fail with hope or succeed with fear. I don't think you have to systemize it too much. Five above or five under would do it.

 

[Reynard]

I do this too. I'll narrate really bad "fail with fear" rolls when they roll very low or really good "succeed with hope". You could use close calls as fail with hope or succeed with fear. I don't think you have to systemize it too much. Five above or five under would do it.

Again, this tightly integrates the two axis so that there is only one axis. And that is fine, but not what DH does. it is inherently more limited and limiting than the two axis resolution.

 

[Parmandur]

But why would you want that?

That is the key element introduced by giving the Complication a bonus to the main D20 test: a player may want to get a Complication to accomplish their main goal if they did not roll high enough on the D20. Hence in Cosmere, the difference between Advantage and Disadvantage is if the DM or player gets to choose which of the two rolls to keep.