D&D 5E (2024) Rogue abilities help

[Horwath]

The Skilled feat is never a bad idea for a rogue, and only gets better at higher levels.

it's also never a good option, even if you want to be the guy with all skills.
you get 2 skills from background, probably 1 from species, 4 from base rogue, that gives the feat 8th, 9th and 10th choice in skills.

I have yet to see this feat get taken in any game that I play in last 11 years.
Skill expert is another thing as it gives 1 expertise and that is something special that average Joe does not have.

Sentinel is good, but at 5th level, I think you get Uncanny Dodge, which will fight for your single reaction if you're in melee and the target of attacks.

Sentinel is great example on how you want to trade defense for offense.

Skulker is fine: - I don't tend to need it for hiding in combat much (less useful for a Thief), but blindsight is great, not just for operating in darkness, fog etc, but also for detecting hidden/invisible opponents.

good feat, that Stealth thing should work always. it's for skulking around.

I know what you mean about Hand Crossbows, but since they don't make sense on a number of levels, I either assume that they are actually inherently magical objects, or avoid them altogether. (I feel the same about people wielding a quarterstaff in one hand and a shield in the other.)

agree, Qstaff should have been a dedicated 2Handed weapon, that can be used 1Handed as spell focus only.
maybe even give it reach.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

it's also never a good option, even if you want to be the guy with all skills.
you get 2 skills from background, probably 1 from species, 4 from base rogue, that gives the feat 8th, 9th and 10th choice in skills.

I have yet to see this feat get taken in any game that I play in last 11 years.
Skill expert is another thing as it gives 1 expertise and that is something special that average Joe does not have.

I love the skilled feat but only when I’m not playing a rogue. It’s handy for the knowledgeable wizard or even a fighter who wants to buff some social skills. My rogue has all the necessary skills and, while another expertise would nice, with a +2 proficiency, it’s not worth a full feat.

Sentinel is great example on how you want to trade defense for offense.

Do you feel that’s a good thing?

good feat, that Stealth thing should work always. it's for skulking around.

I’m leaning towards it. I kind of like the heavy crossbow idea mentioned above. Loading it would take my bonus action which would be fine if I’m already hidden.

 

[Kobold Stew]

it's also never a good option, even if you want to be the guy with all skills.
you get 2 skills from background, probably 1 from species, 4 from base rogue, that gives the feat 8th, 9th and 10th choice in skills.
I have yet to see this feat get taken in any game that I play in last 11 years.

Skilled becomes a lot more appealing to Rogues in 2024, though, since Reliable Talent comes online so much earlier. It won't be for everyone, but it does allow some fun outcomes.

It's also, it turns out, good for casters who want to build magic items -- the requirements to have tool proficiencies are not easy to gut, and skilled is the best/easiest way to get a suite of them. (As a result, Humans make more magic items than any species, which, y'know, in my mind tracks.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

So I would go heavy crossbow (push) as your main weapon. Which is good for kiting and getting enemies away from wizards and into zones like Web.

Just checking and Rogues are not proficient in Heavy Crossbow. It's a Martial weapon and has the Heavy and loading property. The only martial weapons that rogues are proficient in are ones with finesse or light properties.

Medium crossbow is fine because it's a simple weapon and rogues are proficient in a simple weapons.

 

[mellored]

I’m leaning towards it. I kind of like the heavy crossbow idea mentioned above. Loading it would take my bonus action which would be fine if I’m already hidden.

Loading a crossbow doesn't take a bonus action. It's just limited to one attack per turn, which is fine for a rogue as they only make one.

Use the bonus action to hide (easy with Skulker + expertise, it's now a flat DC 15), and then get advantage on your next attack, for an accurate Push (if most enemies are human, size won't be a problem).

And with the scimitar + Nick mastery, you make 2 attacks in melee, and still have your bonus action open to maneuver.


Oh, and if your barbarian also takes Blind Fighting, and tbe warlock takes Devils Sight, then your casters can cast Darkness and you all get advantage while enemies get disadvantage (wizard won't, but they can use saving throw spells which don't care) Blind Sight also combos with Fog Cloud.

And as a Thief, you can use Manacles / Ropes / Chains to bind enemies as a bonus action if they are incapacitated (i.e. wizard cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter), or if the barbarian grapples. So worth carrying some of those around.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Loading a crossbow doesn't take a bonus action. It's just limited to one attack per turn, which is fine for a rogue as they only make one.

Use the bonus action to hide (easy with Skulker + expertise, it's now a flat DC 15), and then get advantage on your next attack, for an accurate Push (if most enemies are human, size won't be a problem).

And with the scimitar + Nick mastery, you make 2 attacks in melee, and still have your bonus action open to maneuver.


Oh, and if your barbarian also takes Blind Fighting, and tbe warlock takes Devils Sight, then your casters can cast Darkness and you all get advantage while enemies get disadvantage (wizard won't, but they can use saving throw spells which don't care) Blind Sight also combos with Fog Cloud.

And as a Thief, you can use Manacles / Ropes / Chains to bind enemies as a bonus action if they are incapacitated (i.e. wizard cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter), or if the barbarian grapples. So worth carrying some of those around.

As I mentioned above, rogues aren’t proficient in heavy crossbow.

Thieves with Fast hands can load crossbows faster

 

[mellored]

Just checking and Rogues are not proficient in Heavy Crossbow. It's a Martial weapon and has the Heavy and loading property. The only martial weapons that rogues are proficient in are ones with finesse or light properties.

Medium crossbow is fine because it's a simple weapon and rogues are proficient in a simple weapons.

Right.

Well shortbow with Slow works as well. You don't need Vex if your hiding.

 

[mellored]

Thieves with Fast hands can load crossbows faster

That doesn’t change anything in 5e.

Crossbows are 1 attack per turn, no other restrictions or action needed.

 

[ECMO3]

it's also never a good option, even if you want to be the guy with all skills.

It is an origin feat. In terms of PHB feats it is competing with probably Lucky and Alarm for the best origin feats for any non-caster Rogue. If you are using HOF or Asterion's Hunger there are some others to consider too, but I think skilled is a pretty solid feat and one of the better options for a Rogue.

True there are probably 6 or 7 other "more important" skills, but come 7th level it is 3 more skills you are getting a minimum of 13+ability every time you throw the d20. That is nothing to sneeze at.

Also if you are playing a Thief specifically and playing into high level (13+) Arcana is pretty darn important and that is not one you can get from a Species or from Rogue. I would argue Skilled or another feat that can give Arcana is pretty mandataory on a Thief unless you get it on your background.

Skill expert is another thing as it gives 1 expertise and that is something special that average Joe does not have.

Apples and Oranges. Skill Expert is a General Feats, not Origin Feat and it is better than any Origin Feat. However, Skilled is probably A tier on a Rogue as compared to other Origin feats. Skill Expert is probably D tier on a Rogue as compared to other General Feats.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Can you not take origin feats as a general feat? If I don’t get reliable talent until 7th, I could just take skilled at 8th