D&D 5E (2024) Changes to the Command spell and its use at the table.

[Clint_L]

What's the difference? The latter should, in theory, result in the former.

The difference is you can move as fast as possible without moving as far as possible, such as by running in a slightly widening spiral. Which is dumb, but a lot less dumb than running off a cliff or into lava.

My point is that people citing a super literal interpretation of RAW are picking which words to be super literal about, probably because they are assuming that “as fast as” equals “as far as.” Which it demonstrably does not.

 

[Lanefan]

The difference is you can move as fast as possible without moving as far as possible, such as by running in a slightly widening spiral.

To me, the words "move away" fairly clearly mean using your move to get as far away from the caster as you can.

Your interpretation is just the sort of shenanigans I was getting at upthread when pointing out to @Reynard the problems with letting players interpret how they obey the command.

 

[Sulicius]

Yeah, I think when I rule Command as being able to move people into lava and off ledges is when I think it is too strong.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

RAW there is no ambiguity here. If you step on caltrops and fail the save (which you can choose to do) your speed is reduced to zero so you stop, period. If you have a fly speed you can't even fly further away because your speed is zero.



They could in theory yes, but that is hardly an example of a powerful spell use and it is so situational it would likely never come up in play.

As far as commands go, flee is not a very powerful one. Drop is. Drop will flat destroy most high level martial-type big bads at the cost of a 1st level spell.




Assuming the target is currently in the charmed condition, they both take affect, there is no conflict. The target uses all its movement to dance in place, the target must spend its turn moving away and the fastest available means ... there are no means to move, so it spends its turn dancing.

The only conflict I can actually see is with the Frightened condition where you make the target flee towards the thing that is frightening him. In that case I would suggest the "fastest available means" is whatever way takes him away from the caster in a fashion that takes him no closer to what is frightening him. if he can't move away from the caster without moving closer to the thing that frightened him then he doesn't move at all, just like if he was grappled or restrained or his speed was 0 or he was under Otto's dance.


The spell does not cause Frightened or Charmed and nothing in the spell says it cancels these effects either.

I can't think of a way charmed would come into play, but Frightened flat stops any movement towards the source of your fear. You can not "Flee" from a caster towards something that is Frightening you any more than you can "Flee" while you are Restrained or Grappled.

The spell can cause you to move towards something that will hurt or kill you, but it can not bypass conditions such as Frightened, Restrained, Paralyzed, Grappled etc. If it could that would make it extremely powerful -

Fighter can't get into melee with the Dragon because he is frightened. Cleric casts Command on him, he chooses to fail and runs right up to it. Or player is stuck in Terrasque's mouth, Cleric casts Command on him and he choses to fail and gets out and runs away. That would be a huge power boost to the spell!

You probably did not follow the conversation correctly.

The caltrop example was there to illustrate that going around obstacles (like your invisible wall and a pit) can be tricky, because how should the spell know the outcome...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If the viewer believes the illusion is real - say, of a wall where no wall really exists - then they'd react accordingly, I think.

I do think so too. @Ecmo thinks the spell has a property that makes you always find the correct path.

If the illusion is of a floor where in reality there's a pit, however, the viewer would also react accordingly and run on to it.

Yes. I think so too.

Three ways to rule on this, I think, and IMO either works fine but it has to be kept consistent across all examples:

Yes. Not that easy though.

Level priority - the higher level spell always trumps the lower if there is a conflict
Timestamp priority - the newer spell always overwrites the older if there is a conflict.
The spells both try to work as best they can - here for example the Otto's dancer's dancing would carry them away from the Command's caster but not at full speed.

A good ruling.

Again, situational I think.

Same.

Personally I don't see Command as being a fear effect, but I can see how some might interpret it that way parciuarly in its "flee" version.

The rules do not say that. So it is not.

There's an argument to be made, I suppose, that it falls under the "charm" umbrella and that charm resistance should apply.

Also. The rules do not support that...

Fortunately, perhaps, nobody's ever brought that one up in my games (though to be fair, Command is rarely seen here in any case).

Interesting in that all of these questions are almost edition-agnostic.

Yes.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

To me, the words "move away" fairly clearly mean using your move to get as far away from the caster as you can.

Your interpretation is just the sort of shenanigans I was getting at upthread when pointing out to @Reynard the problems with letting players interpret how they obey the command.

I think moving away to the best of their ability is quite clear and not really prone to discussion.
I'd never force my players into jumping into a pit if there are other paths.
The idea is getting away. If in doubt, they run towards the direction where they came from.

Conclusion:

The spell is ambiguous.
One has to decide:
straight line or around obstacles.
Ability usage or not
Are you allowed to jump or not (jump into pits or over pits or over caltrops).

Otherwise you can come into weir situations:
you might get stuck in a u-shaped wall behind you when there is an easy way around.

Probably the best course of action is finding a consensus in your group and try to be as consistent as possible.

The spell is just not as clear as we wished ("approach" is much more clearly stated... most direct route).

 

[billd91]

I've often wondered, given the text, if the target should have to Dash or not.

Since the target is spending their turn moving away by fastest available means, I'd say that Dash is may very well be expected. After all, it IS an available means (including bonus action dash for appropriate classes) and will contribute to a means that's fastest. The crux of an interpretation like this is that the target spends their turn moving away, not just spends their movement.

 

[Reynard]

Since the target is spending their turn moving away by fastest available means, I'd say that Dash is may very well be expected. After all, it IS an available means (including bonus action dash for appropriate classes) and will contribute to a means that's fastest. The crux of an interpretation like this is that the target spends their turn moving away, not just spends their movement.

Right. It is possible another action could be more useful than dash in getting away, based on the specific circumstances. I think that could include using its action to avoid an obstacle that might damage it, since dying really slows one down.