Businesses saying keep the rowdy children at home.

Crothian said:

Yes he does.

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Nuh uh!

Crothian said:

Yes he does.

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He can refuse to serve any particular individual in his store he wants to. he cannot discrimiante against anyone based on color, creed or religion. If he doesn't want whiny kids in his store he can ask the parents to leave. He can even call the cops when they refuse.

Crothian said:

If you don't realize how a school and a resturant are different, then let me just start with there are laws that say people have to goto school. rResturants are not like that Schools are not a public place like a resturant is. In ohio I can carry a concealed weapon in resuturants. I'm pretty sure I can't do that at a school. That is just a few of the many differences.

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And it is covered within the scope of the concealed carry law that if the establisment posts that they don't want concealed weapons, it is illegal to bring them inside. You know a condition for service, rather akin to "Keep your children in line", though with substancially more forceful backing than the child sign.

But I guess its just not good for one person to try to have a different opinion around here.

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Ah yes, you poor martyr being set upon while you stand up for the opressed. Spare us please.

Excluding behavior is not discrimination. The sign does not ban all kids, it bans misbehaving kids. If that distiction is too much for you, then I suspect we might as well be arguing with a brick wall.

buzzard

Crothian said:

Banning people and banning cell phones are way different. Children are a type of people. Now if he wants to make the establishment truely adult in nature he can and make it proivate, and serve alchohol and then kids won't be alloud in. But since that is obviously not the case, then he has to deal with the kids.

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He is not banning people. He is asking people with kids to keep them quiet and under control. That is something expected of kids in any public place I have been in. The unfortunate part is too many parents out there don't control their kids, this ruins the enjoyment of the other people around them.

Crothian said:

Banning people and banning cell phones are way different. Children are a type of people.

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Once again, you completely miss the point, Crothian. Kids aren't banned, only behavior is. That's not discrimination.

I have fresh memories of having a toddler sitting behind me on a completely full airplane. He would kick the back of my seat, his tray, very hard and frequently. After several looks at the mother, and a brief discussion where she told me she had absolutely no control over the child and no desire to discipline him, the flight attendant asked, "what are we supposed to do?" I asked what they would do if I started screaming and kicking the seat in front of me and wouldn't listen to anyone...maybe they should try that. I sat the whole flight in the upright and locked position with a blanket drapped over the back of my seat (sometimes you gotta create your own solutions).

I love children, truly I do, there's just no excusing rude behavior. I compare it to someone going shopping with a 10' pole on their shoulder. It knocks stuff over, makes noise, and just generally imposes on anyone near that person. Now the person with the pole says, "What am I supposed to do? I got this big pole on my shoulder? What am I supposed to do?" Answer, don't go out, or go to places where everyone has a 10' pole on their shoulder so no one cares.

Kahuna Burger said:

I like how everyone is focusing on the bad kids and ignoring the people harrassed or made to feel unwelcome because their kids *gasp* made noise.

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Do you fail to understand the difference between a child making noise and being disruptive? Children running into display cases or screaming at the top of their lungs are not merely "making noise".

This is like saying that the cops arresting a drunk for pissing on a doorstep are harassing him. That's plain rubbish.

The quote in question is very likely a biased account. It is plainly evident than the "put upon" parents in the article think they are incapable of doing wrong.

If you want your perfect child free environment, stay home. Out in the world, there are these other people, some have kids, some kids make noise, or move or otherwise make their existance known. Once in a long while, you run into someone who is truely rude, but most of this fuss is just people who can't stand to share.

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Yes, of course, I'm the one causing trouble by sitting quietly eating my meal while the brat at the next table sees if he can shatter the windows like an opera singer. Silly me.

When I was a kid and was taken to a nice restaurant, I was quiet or the trip ended quickly.

and this:
Removes this guy permanently from the list of people I have any respect for. If all you have is mindless insults, keep it to yourself. He's the real world version of an internet troll.

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Somehow I doubt he will be broken hearted to lose your business.

buzzard

Crothian said:

Banning people and banning cell phones are way different. Children are a type of people. Now if he wants to make the establishment truely adult in nature he can and make it proivate, and serve alchohol and then kids won't be alloud in. But since that is obviously not the case, then he has to deal with the kids.

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What the...?

You're saying that only if he starts selling alcohol should he be able to "reserve the right to refuse service"?

That's nonsensical.

Children are denied all mannner of rights accorded to adults until the age of majorty. they can't vote, they can't sign contracts, they can't drive, they are largely not responsible for their actions (thus the "Young Offenders" provisions in most western law).

As such, they are largely considered property of their parents. Specialized property to be sure--they must be cared for, provided for and educated--but they are not what are classically defined as "citizens"

As such, their parents are repsonisble for their behaviour.

If a 30 year old woman began to shriek in the restaurant because she was "tired" and "fussy" or is a 40 year old man spent the time waiting for his meal running up and down the aisles of my restaurant...I'd ask them to leave.

Now, f their charges (children)--for whose behaviour they are responsible--did the same, I would ask their Handlers to get them under control or, yes,...leave.

There's nothing wrong with that. It is the very situation which csued the rise of "Family Restaurants". Now if the "Entitled Moms" don't like fmaily restaurants, then there is no need to patronize them. Patronize whatever place you like that is welcoming of your shrieking kids.

But when you are asked to leave becasue your kid is ruining the ambiance--yes, ambiance--of a restaurant that doesn't wish to be a "Family Restaurant" then have the common decency to clear out.

Kahuna Burger said:

or you are looking at a spoiled antichild reaction that defines movement as "running around", and normal infant/toddler fussing as "screaming."

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Speaking of strawman... yeah, why don't you make up some point that no one has made yet and argue against that some more?

Kahuna Burger said:

I did a lot of eating out and going places over my vacation, and I saw not one parent who didn't have a handle on their kids. The kids did things such as move or make noise, shocking as that may be, but I'm not buying the strawman thats supposedly being reacted to here.

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Speaking of strawman... again...

Nobody is saying "don't take your kids out," they're saying that there are certain places where certain behavior is unacceptable. If you or your kids can't handle that, you may be asked to leave, and if you have any respect for anyone other than yourself, you'll probably not take them there in the first place.

I don't pretend to have perfect kids everytime we go out in public. Then again, I don't take my kids everywhere I go either.

buzzard said:

Ah yes, you poor martyr being set upon while you stand up for the opressed. Spare us please.

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If you want spered leave the thread :\

I just made the comment since some people were being rude and cannot even see how someone might disagree with them