D&D 5E Race/Class combinations that were cool but you avoided due to mechanics?

Haldrik said:

Nothing lasts for ever. Nothing endures without effort.

If nimble archer elves are important to you, there needs to be a strategy to preserve the concept.

The concept of plant-life elf-shot elves doesnt resonate with me personally, but I imagine there are British folklorists and LotR fans, even Shakespeareans, who find the concept significant. So, there needs to be a strategy to keep the concept relevant, especially when competing alongside other concepts that are now coexisting.

The challenge is to figure out how to keep one identity alive without oppressing other identities.

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Somehow I don’t think ability score increases in D&D 5e are the cornerstone holding the notion of nimble elf archers together.

Haldrik said:

Nothing lasts for ever. Nothing endures without effort.

If nimble archer elves are important to you, there needs to be a strategy to preserve the concept.

Click to expand...

There is such a strategy: if it’s important to you, then give your elves high Dex. Problem solved.

Or...do you mean it’s important to you that other people also give their elves high Dex? If so, maybe you should think about that.

I never really bothered with optimizing my race with my class. Dragonborn cleric, half-orc wizard, dwarf rogue? Sign me up! Stereotypes are lame, and optimization is for other people to fuss with.

The only time I remember worrying about it was 1e and thinking about level limits for demi-humans. I didn't always let that stop me (in part because in some games most characters almost never lived that long. I still remember the poor elven cleric who was one level from retiring when the lich's 20d lightning bolt wiped out an entire row of the party.)

CleverNickName said:

I never really bothered with optimizing my race with my class. Dragonborn cleric, half-orc wizard, dwarf rogue? Sign me up! Stereotypes are lame, and optimization is for other people to fuss with.

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This thinking warms my heart. Go for cool.

dwarf fighters and elf wizards are plenty cool but a change of pace is good for everyone involved.

Elfcrusher said:

There is such a strategy: if it’s important to you, then give your elves high Dex. Problem solved.

Or...do you mean it’s important to you that other people also give their elves high Dex? If so, maybe you should think about that.

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it’s not really a type if most people aren’t doing it.

Charlaquin said:

Somehow I don’t think ability score increases in D&D 5e are the cornerstone holding the notion of nimble elf archers together.

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what do you think is?

Charlaquin said:

Somehow I don’t think ability score increases in D&D 5e are the cornerstone holding the notion of nimble elf archers together.

Click to expand...

Elfcrusher said:

There is such a strategy: if it’s important to you, then give your elves high Dex. Problem solved.

Or...do you mean it’s important to you that other people also give their elves high Dex? If so, maybe you should think about that.

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I agree, the nimble elf archers are a trope that is over a 1000 years old. It has much going for it.

Still, when oppression is no longer the viable strategy, one is forced to think about a reason to exist (raison detre). Does Dex really matter?

Why do elves have Dex? How does Dex adapt? How does Dex ensure survival? How does the culture reward Dex? Why is a magical population physically dexterous? Etcetera. In what ways does Dexterity matter?

Going by British folklore, the elves are a blend of Norse alf, Celtic sidhe, and French faie. The result is a new creature. This is a land nature spirit, resonating fertility of the soil and animals, and fate. These elves rewarded good and industrious humans, but punished evil or lazy humans. By Shakespearean times, the punishments were mostly pranks. European Christianity only allowed for good spirits versus evil spirits, and never knew what to do with nature spirits that were neither. Christianity tended to demonize nature spirits, more often than not, but there continued to be resistance because the culture felt strongly that these nature spirits were not really evil, even when they admitted they werent really good either. The culture of Shakespeare offered the solution that these spirits were childlike, and innocent and playful, but hadnt yet developed an adult sense of morality, and could punish people who were not nice by playing pranks. The pranks included elf-shot, that were invisible spiritual arrows. The results of these arrows ranged from mysterious muscle spams, and sudden pains and cramps, to ones leg falling asleep and starting to tingle painfully, to epileptic seizures and deadly strokes.

Tolkien tended to translate these nature spirits into humanlike ethnic groups. The elven humans seem to maintain the affinity with archery, and generally keep their (childlike) innocence. But his elves were once powerful because of magic but now are fragile and frail, with the prevalence of nonmagical humans.

D&D cohered with Tolkien elves, being mundane, while gaining Dex for bow, and a Con penalty for being frail.

In my eyes, a defacto human ethnic group who simply likes bows and Dexterity, is not really an interesting concept worth preserving. Players who do enjoy this kind of elf concept, might want to develop the concept further.



I enjoy more the skyey angelic luminous solar elf, that are inherently magic even made out of magic, as a concept. This population has little or nothing to do with Dexterity (or bows). I think about the tropes of beauty and art, and how Charisma matters to their culture of magic. Their leaders and spiritual leaders are moreso Bards. Lore Bards are prestigious. Intelligence also matters. Their academics and magic item makers are moreso Wizards.

Charlaquin said:

Somehow I don’t think ability score increases in D&D 5e are the cornerstone holding the notion of nimble elf archers together.

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And yet, if posts in this thread are indicative, if elves didn't have a bonus to a stat that makes them nimble or better archers, people wouldn't have been playing them as such.

We cannot have it both ways. Look at the posts and the initial statement.

I would play X but I don’t like the lack of bonus!

vs.

The identity has nothing to do with bonus!

The truth is that the bonus is just a tendency meant to facilitate building the archetype. You can make what you want generally, everyone can get to 20, but some races have a head start.

if it takes more time to become str 20 halfling vs half orc and that is not tolerable, I have a hard time believing it’s the other halfling traits that are the most important thing for you.

and honestly, that is good with me. If some people are discouraged from playing a super strong halfling, those that stick it out deserve the unique and uncommon reward of playing a super strong halfling.

mark my words (as if a game is serious as death): people will flock to silly sh*t like that just to be funny. There is no cost. It will all be picking outrageous combos until There is no outrageous really to be had.

for some folks there is an issue with ability mods, sunlight sensitivity, negative race relations.

just play a human that looks different and get it over with. I think the old ways of playing could be frustrating but all benefit and no drawback strikes me as...unexciting. It’s easy mode. It’s inoffensive mode. It’s participation trophies...

where I am with WOTC is when they talk about optional...everyone can have what they want, surely we do not all want the same thing.