D&D General Naming the Barbarian? [added battlerager]

BlivetWidget · Oct 8, 2020

Azzy said:
Citation needed.

From a 16c. list of historical laws of Scottish kings, in Sir James Balfour, "Practicks: Or, a System of the More Ancient Law of Scotland," 1754:

All vagabundis, fulis, bardis, ſcudlaris, and ſiclike idill pepill, ſall be brint on the cheek, and ſcourgit with wandis, except thay find ſum craft to win thair living.

Or just do a google search for 'bard etymology'. I'm not your internet.

billd91 said:
Yeah, well, if you take a term to describe someone who is not of the politer classes as derogatory, maybe. But it doesn't seem to have been treated with upper class snobbery throughout its entire existence as a term.

Neither has [insert politically insensitive term here that was later appropriated as a term of empowerment]. That doesn't erase its history. Word connotations of course change with time.

Listen, folks-who-have-taken-exception-to-a-historical-fact, it was a joke post pointing out that most class names don't directly tell you what they do. It's a true statement that if you got called a bard in 16th century Scotland, you were not being called a nice name, but that's not the message of the post, just a historical aside to enjoy.

Lord Twig · Oct 8, 2020

Changing the names of classes does have precedent. They changed Magic-User (talk about a descriptive name!) to Mage in 2nd edition (Wizard was the class group for Mage and Illusionist), then to Wizard in 3rd edition. Also Thief was changed to Rogue in 3rd (Rogue was the class group for Thief and Bard in 2nd). In addition I think that Pathfinder 2 changing Paladin to Champion was a great change and think that D&D should follow suit with that. In my opinion it much better captures the flavor of the class without the baggage of Paladin and allows characters to claim the name Paladin for the traditional lawful good stereotype.

Barbarian is a little tougher. I agree that the name doesn't match as well as it should, but there isn't a clear cut alternative that really jumps out at me. I voted Battlerager. I do like the image it evokes, but it does suffer a bit for being a non-standard word. It just doesn't quite strike me as a perfect substitute like Champion does for Paladin. But I can't come up with a better one.

Tonguez · Oct 8, 2020

Bacon Bits said:
Bacon Bits said:

Edit: Actually, I think I just don't want Rage to be called Rage. I don't like that it's flavor is about getting getting angry. I think it narrows the class scope. Obviously, yes, in actual play you can ignore the description in the book and call it Battlesense or Super Saiyan or whatever. I'm just not a fan of the default flavor of the ability, partially because of the cultural assumptions it packs along with it about what we civilized folks think barbarians are, and partially because I don't like telling new players that there's a class whose schtick is getting super angry. "They've got a bad temper," isn't a very fun or cooperative personality trait.

Click to expand...

got a bad temper," isn't a very fun or cooperative personality trait.

I once did a high Dex Barbarian who internalised his rage to the point of being hyper calm and hyper focused. He presented as an expressionless deadly assasin type who plowed into battle with no outward emotion, killing everything in his path with his double swords

Laurefindel · Oct 8, 2020

I still like « warrior » best, and has the advantage of not taking someone else’s name. And simple. I like simple.

Otherwise, « outlander » works well too.

Laurefindel · Oct 8, 2020

Tonguez said:
I once did a high Dex Barbarian who internalised his rage to the point of being hyper calm and hyper focused. He presented as an expressionless deadly assasin type who plowed into battle with no outward emotion, killing everything in his path with his double swords

On my last barbarian character sheet, « rage » was replace with « parrying combat stance », or Golden Swords Deneith stance when that roguish-type character wanted to brag.

in this case, the word « barbarian » as a concept didn’t apply. It’s a refluff-friendly character class with an admittedly refluff-unfriendly title.

MGibster · Oct 8, 2020

Azzy said:
Citation needed.

If Wikipedia is good enough, here's what they have to say about Bard. Apparently for some time it was a derogatory word. But then so was rogue and we don't mind having one of those as a character class name.

Tonguez · Oct 8, 2020

BlivetWidget said:
From a 16c. list of historical laws of Scottish kings, in Sir James Balfour, "Practicks: Or, a System of the More Ancient Law of Scotland," 1754:

Or just do a google search for 'bard etymology'. I'm not your internet.

ah you got to love that old Puritanism banning singing and dancing as work of the devil

BlivetWidget · Oct 8, 2020

Tonguez said:
ah you got to love that old Puritanism banning singing and dancing as work of the devil

I think it was more to do with people leeching off society and not earning their keep. I'm not a scholar of the English of that period by any means, but I would say it pretty clearly translates along the lines of "All vagabonds, fools, bards, scroungers, and suchlike idle people, shall be burnt on the cheek and whipped with sticks unless they learn some useful craft to earn a real living."

Cadence · Oct 8, 2020

BlivetWidget said:
Since it was invented, and for about 300 years after that until the term got romanticized.

BlivetWidget said:
From a 16c. list of historical laws of Scottish kings, in Sir James Balfour, "Practicks: Or, a System of the More Ancient Law of Scotland," 1754:

Or just do a google search for 'bard etymology'. I'm not your internet.

The definitions in the OED that goes with that law has some extra clarification...

" 2. In early Lowland Scottish used for: A strolling musician or minstrel (into which the Celtic bard had degenerated, and against whom many laws were enacted); in 16th cent. a term of contempt, but idealized by Scott by association with 4."

That seems to give a different picture, especially in line with the definition above it...

"1. An ancient Celtic order of minstrel-poets, whose primary function appears to have been to compose and sing (usually to the harp) verses celebrating the achievements of chiefs and warriors, and who committed to verse historical and traditional facts, religious precepts, laws, genealogies, etc. Still the word for ‘poet’ in modern Celtic languages; and in Welsh spec. A poet or versifier who has been recognized at the Eisteddfod."

It doesn't seem to have been negative outside of lowland Scotland, and seems to have recovered by the early 1600s in general.

Lord Twig · Oct 8, 2020

Laurefindel said:
I still like « warrior » best, and has the advantage of not taking someone else’s name. And simple. I like simple.

Otherwise, « outlander » works well too.

Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I think Warrior might be a good name. I will change my vote to that.

The name Berserker links it to closely with the Path of the Berserker primal path, which is already its own thing. A person that loses themselves in a mindless rage is different than using anger and rage as a way to fuel your fighting. A Warrior could go berserk, or they could just use focused anger and rage, or use extreme discipline for that matter.

So yeah, Warrior is good.

D&D General Naming the Barbarian? [added battlerager]

What name do you prefer for the class?

Barbarian

Berserker

Ravager

Rager

Other

Battlerager

BlivetWidget

Explorer

Lord Twig

Adventurer

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow

Laurefindel

Legend

Laurefindel

Legend

MGibster

Legend

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow

BlivetWidget

Explorer

Cadence

Legend

Lord Twig

Adventurer

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