D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

EzekielRaiden said:

My point was not whether that position is widespread. My point was that dismissing the question out of hand, as though it is completely ridiculous and untenable, is inappropriate when we literally have had someone advocate exactly that thing here. Sarcastic "really now, let's not invent boogeymen" responses lose a lot of their oomph when the boogeyman has, in fact, actually popped up.

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My response was to his implying that I would run it that way. As I said, had he asked me a question about it I would have answered it. Posing it as basically an accusation of how I do things warrants the response that he got.

EzekielRaiden said:

Pretending this is a strawman is silly, because this target actually has gotten up and walked around. Clarifying how and why you DON'T take that position is in fact a relevant thing for people to ask for. It may not be anyone else's position in the thread besides pming. But it's been a real position, and I haven't exactly seen any of the "wow man that's extreme don't you think" kind of responses/statements...like the ones I have given to those "on my side" that I think have gone overboard.

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Nah. If he wanted to ask me in a civil, appropriate manner he'd have gotten a far different response. The way he posted it, though, didn't warrant a response by me other than the one that he got.

Mecheon said:

guys if we're talking ancient horses then you're just inviting me to just go full nerd.

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Consider this my invitation, then—I'd watch your Ted Talk.

Mecheon said:

Is it 600 pounds though? Centaurs aren't the size of a horse, they're smaller. Additionally their internal body structure is different. Certainly lighter as you don't need a collosal intestine system to turn grass into energy, and that's before you ask 'hang on what's the heart/lung situation we got going on here.

We can't compare just horse+human to establish what a centaur could or could not do. They're unrealistic beings by nature, so applying small bits of realism to them is just going to result in the whole realism house collapsing on 'em.

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I just wonder if some drunk ancient Greek guys had this discussion about centaur anatomy. I wonder what their thoughts were on centaurs' climbing ability.

Maxperson said:

Stay classy dude.

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Wait, who was it that was defending a tavern scenario wherein a tabaxi is discriminated against “because claws”?

EzekielRaiden said:

I'm bad at being concise. I desire precise, specific arguments, and throw more words at the problem than are needed. I know this fault well, and try to fix it. (As you've seen, success is...spotty.) I care because you (and thus others) asked questions, and I want to give answers; I care because I know others will read this and potentially learn from it; I care because advocating for respect, discussion, and compromise is always worthwhile in my book.

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I'll be completely honest. Sometimes your point gets lost in the length of your posts and in this case I probably lost the point you were trying to make. I probably overreacted to what you were saying as a result.

If that is your weakness, mine is probably overreacting to things. Not sure which is worse (probably mine). It's tricky playing and running D&D. And also being a part of an online message board. I feel like I have a certain approach to D&D and I feel like my particular approach is often attacked. I think I forget to add the "In my opinion" to every posters post. Like that is all that is ever being posted is opinions. Some people post as if they are presenting facts, but in reality it is opinions.

I try really hard to frame my points of view as opinion. But I fail at it... and generate 190+ page thread of argument.

EzekielRaiden said:

I had thought the whole point of the discussion, as it is now, is that people aren't fine with an option being present or non-present. That the players DO want something you don't, or don't want something you do, or whatever.

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I guess I'm just pro-DM in this case. I think it is harder for a DM to create a great experience when they have to deal with elements they don't enjoy. Personally, I do actually run casual anything-goes games. I also run a regular campaign with more strict themes.

EzekielRaiden said:

Getting to play is a rare opportunity for me, yes. I said as much earlier in the thread. It's especially rare if I get to play my favorite systems (4e and 13A). I'm only a DM right now because a friend went through a game-experience so incredibly bad that even my depression couldn't overcome my certainty that I could do a better job.


Yeah, that's...pretty much the antithesis of my experience. I've gone years without any gaming at all.

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I'm sorry. I didn't mean to brag. My point was more of a offshoot of the idea of there being more options so there is more variety.

EzekielRaiden said:

This is certainly a reasonable thesis. One does not need to ask for negotiation and amelioration if games are plentiful; an easy-come, easy-go attitude is hard to express when it may be years between opportunities.

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Yeah. My point of view is expressed in these terms. I've been blessed with being able to enjoy my hobby with many friends and also strangers (some of whom have become friends). I apologize in that I sometimes forget that not everyone has the same experience. I get too set in my ways and too dramatic in what I think is right.

Between this thread and the erosion of racial distinctiveness post-Tasha's, I'm toying with a "Wild Cards"-like setting in which all the non-human races are humans who have survived but been changed by a magical disease.

There are different nations and cultures, but they are not built around race. "Changed" humans, whether elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, dragonborn, tiefling, tabaxi, shifter, warforged, centaur, satyr, triton, loxodon, kobold, orc, goblin, or whatever, are a known quantity and are tolerated - or not - based on culture and individual preference.

With this, the default response to a player asking, "Can I play Race X?" is, "Sure, you got changed by the disease."

FireLance said:

Between this thread and the erosion of racial distinctiveness post-Tasha's, I'm toying with a "Wild Cards"-like setting in which all the non-human races are humans who have survived but been changed by a magical disease.

There are different nations and cultures, but they are not built around race. "Changed" humans, whether elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, dragonborn, tiefling, tabaxi, shifter, warforged, centaur, satyr, triton, loxodon, kobold, orc, goblin, or whatever, are a known quantity and are tolerated - or not - based on culture and individual preference.

With this, the default response to a player asking, "Can I play Race X?" is, "Sure, you got changed by the disease."

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Is this wide or narrow? Is a dwarf really a dwarf if he doesn't come from a long line of mountain dwelling miners streching back centures.

Don Durito said:

Is this wide or narrow? Is a dwarf really a dwarf if he doesn't come from a long line of mountain dwelling miners streching back centures.

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Culture can be freely chosen too. He can come from a culture of mountain dwelling miners if you like.

Or he could be an outcast fleeing from an oppressive underground culture.

Or he could come from a culture of pastoral farmers or a forest-dwelling culture that loves magic and music.

EzekielRaiden said:

That isn't a DM, it's an organization. By definition, the relationship is impersonal, and its requirements are expected to be unilateral, absolute, and (in general) obdurate. But an AL game is also one where almost nothing we've discussed applies. You don't get this incredible hard work invested by the DM because these are prewritten modules in extant settings. You don't get grand DM "vision" because the adventure path is already set. Many of these choices are, formally speaking, out of the AL DM's hands. E.g. I imagine Maxperson would actively avoid running AL games, because Dragonborn officially exist in the Forgotten Realms and thus it is impossible for him to truly enjoy himself when running that world "as written." Several other settings also officially include them or an equivalent (Eberron, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, obviously 4e's World Axis), so organized play is almost unavoidably tainted for Max.

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I quoted you because it prompted further thoughts of my own.

I think some of the restrictions/inclusions are intended to produce better play experience.
(IME, whether that works or not still varies, but for reasons which are other conversations.)

It's something I've thought more about because I started playing D&D with a group which rotated DMs, but many of the DMs ran campaigns based on the same homebrew world. (At the time, I didn't DM because I didn't know D&D very well.) While it was never explicitly stated that certain things existed (or didn't,) I feel as though there were some general rules established concerning how the world worked -and what things were common, uncommon, rare, or unavailable to the players. I don't think it ever lead to serious conflict. If something came up, a conversation between the DM at the time and the players would occur. I once asked about playing an awakened penguin ninja (because I thought it would be funny). The DM didn't feel that fit he tone of the game or the world. I made something else (but was a little bummed about it at first).

Other groups I've played with haven't done that (rotate through the same world, but with different DMs). I'm curious if there are other groups which do that. If so, do they have some established (either formal or informal) rules about the general state of the game world.

If that's communicated in some way, are there people who would be turned off by not being able to play their version of a penguin?

From the perspective of writing a campaign setting, does the contemporary D&D audience prefer that a writer make a place for everything to exist?

Hypothetically, if I were to write a setting and say (as I did earlier in the thread) that 'normal' PHB options (like gnomes and halflings) didn't exist (and were replaced by something else,) would that be something an audience would reject?

FireLance said:

Culture can be freely chosen too. He can come from a culture of mountain dwelling miners if you like.

Or he could be an outcast fleeing from an oppressive underground culture.

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These might be dwarves

FireLance said:

Or he could come from a culture of pastoral farmers or a forest-dwelling culture that loves magic and music.

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But what is there that makes this a dwarf and not a halfling or gnome?