• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D General The DM Shortage

Faolyn

(she/her)
I know it would be heretical, but I think that D&D 5e would be easier if it reduced the initial amount of spells in the PHB or made them less verbose. It's not as if WotC couldn't add the spells back in later. I have seen firsthand numerous times - and I understand that other people's experience differ - the sheer amount of spells in the PHB overwhelm new players or even experienced casual players.
I've noticed, however, that many of the sources you mention kind of assume that you already know what the spells are like, because of D&D. Same with monsters, who typically lack detailed descriptions because everyone knows what a dragon or orc or basilisk is like, because of D&D.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Well, I can tell you right off the bat that I have never had a bad time running the setting, and my players keep saying that they love my Ravenloft games, so this is entirely wrong.

I don't use overpowered monsters (seriously; most of the monsters I love the most are the weaker ones). I don't take away abilities or corrupt them or take away agency. If I'm going to "corrupt" a PC, I have always fully gotten the player's permission first and discussed the details with them. Currently, one PC is a blind hexblade who gains some limited blindsight when wielding his blade and since the PC already decided that part of his pact involves licking the blood off their blade, I've discussed it with them about the possibility to slowly being corrupted and eventually transforming into a werebat.

What I do for the horror is describe everything in as creepy and visceral a way as I can. I don't even go into gorn territory, by the way, since I believe less is more when it comes to things like that. But describing the scents and tactile sensations of an area automatically makes it that much scarier.
Ok, let me just point something out, ok? Go back to 2e, when Domains of Dread was first created. Look at the pages and pages of changes to how spells and abilities work, ranging from "doesn't work", to "screws you over and laughs at you for trying". Now, go look at the Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium- no wait, you know, here, I'll give you an example.
Wolfwere.jpg

This fine fellow is the Greater Wolfwere. This is not an isolated, standout monster. It is simply one of many examples of where "make players afraid" translates to "overpowered ridiculous monsters". Upon encountering this creature, you will no doubt mistake it for a werewolf. If werewolves had the equivalent of 5e 22 Strength and all the powers of a 1st-11th level Bard, that is. Or the ability to summon 4d6 wolves or 2d6 dire wolves.

But what really makes this creature insane, as if all that wasn't enough, is that, "Iron weapons (or those of a +1 enchantment_ are required to harm a greater wolfwere. However, unless the blow is instantly fatal, the wound will quickly repair itself as the wolfwere is able to regenerate all of it's hit points at the end of any given round". Now, what level would you be expected to encounter such a creature, you may ask?

Feast of Goblyns, an adventure for 5-7 characters of levels 4-7. Possibly as a random encounter. Not a "boss" fight. Not the final, dramatic, setpiece battle. You could just run into one as a matter of course.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. It doesn't take a bad DM to make Ravenloft a miserable experience for the players. It takes a very good DM not to.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
Ok, let me just point something out, ok? Go back to 2e, when Domains of Dread was first created. Look at the pages and pages of changes to how spells and abilities work, ranging from "doesn't work", to "screws you over and laughs at you for trying". Now, go look at the Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium- no wait, you know, here, I'll give you an example.
View attachment 269326
This fine fellow is the Greater Wolfwere. This is not an isolated, standout monster. It is simply one of many examples of where "make players afraid" translates to "overpowered ridiculous monsters". Upon encountering this creature, you will no doubt mistake it for a werewolf. If werewolves had the equivalent of 5e 22 Strength and all the powers of a 1st-11th level Bard, that is. Or the ability to summon 4d6 wolves or 2d6 dire wolves.

But what really makes this creature insane, as if all that wasn't enough, is that, "Iron weapons (or those of a +1 enchantment_ are required to harm a greater wolfwere. However, unless the blow is instantly fatal, the wound will quickly repair itself as the wolfwere is able to regenerate all of it's hit points at the end of any given round". Now, what level would you be expected to encounter such a creature, you may ask?

Feast of Goblyns, an adventure for 5-7 characters of levels 4-7. Possibly as a random encounter. Not a "boss" fight. Not the final, dramatic, setpiece battle. You could just run into one as a matter of course.
You're pointing at a feature and calling it a bug.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. It doesn't take a bad DM to make Ravenloft a miserable experience for the players. It takes a very good DM not to.
You're complaining that the horror setting is actually...you know...a horror setting.
 

You're pointing at a feature and calling it a bug.

You're complaining that the horror setting is actually...you know...a horror setting.
I think he's saying that presenting the PCs with creatures they cannot defeat is not the same as horror. As someone who has always found Ravenloft to be neither what I want from Horror nor what I want from D&D I don't disagree.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Ok, let me just point something out, ok? Go back to 2e, when Domains of Dread was first created. Look at the pages and pages of changes to how spells and abilities work, ranging from "doesn't work", to "screws you over and laughs at you for trying". Now, go look at the Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium- no wait, you know, here, I'll give you an example.
View attachment 269326
This fine fellow is the Greater Wolfwere. This is not an isolated, standout monster. It is simply one of many examples of where "make players afraid" translates to "overpowered ridiculous monsters". Upon encountering this creature, you will no doubt mistake it for a werewolf. If werewolves had the equivalent of 5e 22 Strength and all the powers of a 1st-11th level Bard, that is. Or the ability to summon 4d6 wolves or 2d6 dire wolves.

But what really makes this creature insane, as if all that wasn't enough, is that, "Iron weapons (or those of a +1 enchantment_ are required to harm a greater wolfwere. However, unless the blow is instantly fatal, the wound will quickly repair itself as the wolfwere is able to regenerate all of it's hit points at the end of any given round". Now, what level would you be expected to encounter such a creature, you may ask?

Feast of Goblyns, an adventure for 5-7 characters of levels 4-7. Possibly as a random encounter. Not a "boss" fight. Not the final, dramatic, setpiece battle. You could just run into one as a matter of course.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. It doesn't take a bad DM to make Ravenloft a miserable experience for the players. It takes a very good DM not to.
VRGtR189: "Feature monsters that are immune to tactics characters often use but that are vulnerable to other strategies the characters could employ.".. They just leave that to the GM.. Why is it a problem that one book gives examples of monsters that do so & rules changes that require shifts in strategy?
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
VRGtR189: "Feature monsters that are immune to tactics characters often use but that are vulnerable to other strategies the characters could employ.".. They just leave that to the GM.. Why is it a problem that one book gives examples of monsters that do so & rules changes that require shifts in strategy?
Feature monsters? Didn't I mention how it's found on a random encounter table? And it's not one book, lol. The entire history of the setting is filled with these sorts of things. I mean, if you want more examples, I can happily provide them, lol. Here's another fun one!
LoupGarou.jpg

The Loup-garou is a more powerful variant of the werewolf. As anyone knows, if you're in werewolf country, carry silver weapon...oh wait, what's that? It's a Mountain Loup-garou? Yeah good luck, hope your DM made sure you got magic weapons, because nobody is carrying around a gold weapon to fight this thing off with!
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Feature monsters? Didn't I mention how it's found on a random encounter table? And it's not one book, lol. The entire history of the setting is filled with these sorts of things. I mean, if you want more examples, I can happily provide them, lol. Here's another fun one!
View attachment 269333
The Loup-garou is a more powerful variant of the werewolf. As anyone knows, if you're in werewolf country, carry silver weapon...oh wait, what's that? It's a Mountain Loup-garou? Yeah good luck, hope your DM made sure you got magic weapons, because nobody is carrying around a gold weapon to fight this thing off with!
Maybe do a little research first? Like, you know, every monster-hunting story?
 

Honestly it's regional as well.

Where I live I actually have the opposite problem: Not enough players. I've been seeking players for literally months now and have been unable to find anyone local to join our group. It doesn't help that I have zero interest in playing using online systems or virtual tabletops. Tried all the local game stores, reddit, meetup (and several other apps), searching for players here, putting up ad in local stores, and even craigslist. Hell, I even tried putting up a flyer in several churches nearby. I didn't even get any Satanic panic style knee jerk "D&D is the devil" type responses to the ads (I'm in the American south, and at least then I'd know someone read the ad). I'm simply not getting any responses...at all.

This problem is hardly unique to D&D though, pretty much ANY location based app is abysmal if you don't live in a major city like NYC, Boston, or any of the places on the West/East coast. There simply just aren't the raw numbers to make proximity based apps/social media worth a damn.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Ok, let me just point something out, ok? Go back to 2e, when Domains of Dread was first created. Look at the pages and pages of changes to how spells and abilities work, ranging from "doesn't work", to "screws you over and laughs at you for trying". Now, go look at the Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium- no wait, you know, here, I'll give you an example.
Sure. Of course, back then, Ravenloft was literally a "weekend in hell." You played an adventure there and then went back home. You'll note that nearly every single spell that "doesn't work" is one that allows you to teleport or scry outside of Ravenloft, and "screws you over" is a 1-2% chance of having the Dark Powers notice you.

Also? Many of the spells that worked weirdly in the Black Box set were removed from the altered spells list in Domains of Dread--because by that time, the game had changed from weekend in hell to a setting you could be native to and have an entire campaign in.

View attachment 269326
This fine fellow is the Greater Wolfwere. This is not an isolated, standout monster. It is simply one of many examples of where "make players afraid" translates to "overpowered ridiculous monsters". Upon encountering this creature, you will no doubt mistake it for a werewolf. If werewolves had the equivalent of 5e 22 Strength and all the powers of a 1st-11th level Bard, that is. Or the ability to summon 4d6 wolves or 2d6 dire wolves.

But what really makes this creature insane, as if all that wasn't enough, is that, "Iron weapons (or those of a +1 enchantment_ are required to harm a greater wolfwere. However, unless the blow is instantly fatal, the wound will quickly repair itself as the wolfwere is able to regenerate all of it's hit points at the end of any given round". Now, what level would you be expected to encounter such a creature, you may ask?

Feast of Goblyns, an adventure for 5-7 characters of levels 4-7. Possibly as a random encounter. Not a "boss" fight. Not the final, dramatic, setpiece battle. You could just run into one as a matter of course.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. It doesn't take a bad DM to make Ravenloft a miserable experience for the players. It takes a very good DM not to.
I hadn't read Feast of Goblyns before because I generally don't use pre-written adventures (I have rewritten the heck out of CoS, which is the only RL adventure I've ever bought). So I'm not going to defend it if it was a badly-written module. That being said...

This is, indeed, all bad DM stuff. It's bad DM stuff that may be written into the game because there wasn't much in the way of balancing encounters back them, but a sensible DM would read this and realize that it was OP. Of course, since there wasn't much balance back then, it's quite likely that these level 4-7 players have several magic items. There was no magic item budget then, only warnings about not going Monty Haul.

Also, as a note, I looked up the adventure. Wolfweres and a greater wolfweres were on an optional encounter table with a note saying that the encounters weren't necessary and were to be used primarily for flavor:
It is recommended that the encounters for a party be hand picked to reflect the situation they find themselves in. For example, if they have just fought off an attack by a pair of werewolves, they might be haunted through the night by the howling of wolves in the distance. It is also important to remember that not all encounters should lead to combat. It may be far more effective simply to have the party know that the woods around them are full of dire wolves than to have half a dozen such creatures charge into their camp every few hours.
In fact, the adventure goes on to say that they are optional encounters and not random encounters. A DM has to actively choose to put one in the game. They can't hide behind "it's a random encounter table, I had to roll on it."

FoG also has this note:
In the Monstrous Compendium, wolfweres are noted as being hit only by iron or +1 or better weapons. The word "iron" is up to interpretation here as to what qualifies. It is important in this module to keep wolfweres a threat to the PCs. A band of three wolfweres should be a formidable foe, perhaps nearly invincible. However, if you interpret "iron" as meaning any metal weapon, then all your PCs will be able to hit the wolfweres without needing magical weapons.
In game terms we suggest that you take this to mean nearly pure iron. Such weapons would be older than most of those carried by the PCs (who tend to have steel weapons in most games). Furthermore, iron weapons are generally inferior to steel weapons being more brittle and easier to chip and break. In combat, any natural roll of a I indicates that such a weapon has broken if it is being used on a harder substance (like steel).
This gives you some flexibility in controlling which of your PC's non-magical weapons will be effective against these creatures. If none of the PCs have magic weapons, you will probably wish to have a couple of them carrying old iron weapons or make such weapons available to them early on in the game. If many of your PCs have magic weapons, you should decree that all of their normal weapons are either steel or very impure iron (not qualifying them to damage a wolfwere).
Emphasis mine. So right away, the game makes it pretty easy to let the PCs be properly armed against wolfweres. The DM has to make the conscious decision to have the PCs be useless against wolfweres.

The game also states that if your PCs are weak/low-level, then you can use werewolves in place of wolfweres and standard wolves in place of dire wolves (and conversely, if your PCs are higher level, to substitute loup-garou and greater wolfweres in place of regular werewolves and wolfweres). There are a lot of examples like that in the book. "Your PCs encounter the master of the wolves. He can be a werewolf or wolfwere if you desire." Or he can be a normal person.

What this means is, if you played in this game and were killed or almost killed by an OP random encounter, then that indicates that the DM wanted to put you through a meat grinder, rather than actually produce a horror game.

Perhaps this will surprise you, but in the close to two decades I've run Ravenloft, I've had three PC deaths, and two of them were because the players wanted their character to die (one person had to leave the game entirely; another player didn't like her character). Only one of the deaths was in combat--and it was a boss fight, in 5e.
 

Remove ads

Top