What makes setting lore "actually matter" to the players?

Campbell said:

When something new comes out it does not cancel or ruin what has come before. I like a lot of games (and editions of games) that are no longer having stuff produced for them. Legend of the Five Rings Fifth Edition, Conan 2d20, D&D 4e, Sorcerer, Witchcraft and Chronicles of Darkness. Thing is I still have them, and I do not need anyone's approval to enjoy them.

If someone produces a new thing that doesn't match up with what I enjoyed about the previous versions I can still play/run the previous versions or find suitable substitutes. I'm not going to spend energy lamenting that the lore from 4E has been abandoned because I can still run and play games in the Nentir Vale using the World Axis cosmology.

Sometimes I also just like the newer versions of things. Pathfinder Second Edition captivates me far more first ever did. Same for Chronicles of Darkness over its antecedents.

At the end of the day, I'm not entitled to anyone's creative labor. It's generally a lot more fruitful for me to focus on the stuff I like.

Doesn't stop being anxious over this new edition of Apocalypse World. But if it's not for it's not for me.

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VelvetViolet said:

I wish I could be positive like you, but I just can’t.

All of my experiences with lore are negative. If I invest in it, then it gets canceled before it gets anywhere, retconned because of some new writer whims, or rots into slop. If I don’t, then I get cyberbullied. It’s no a win scenario. What is wrong with ttrpgs? It’s like the hobby hates me. There’s no point in engaging.

So I’m pretty much just giving up on ttrpgs in favor of writing original fiction about what I wish ttrpgs would do for me. If they don’t owe me anything, then I don’t owe them zilch either. They betrayed me.

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Campbell said:

Not sure what to tell you. For me lore has always been a tool used to enable gameplay experiences. The point for me has always been investing in the creativity happening at our table. For which the broader hobby does not matter? Like if someone has a problem with the lore changes in L5R Fifth Edition that I like it does not matter because they are not playing with us.

Our perfect version of Vampire did not exist, so we built it.

For me it's all about practice and what we build together at the table.

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RenleyRenfield said:

To be fair, I would not be opposed to a /rant thread. like, I have no idea how to keep that from spiraling out of control. (dont most forums ban 'edition wars' posts for this very reason?) But i totally get the catharsis from venting!



Is this bad?

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VelvetViolet said:

If game designers want to make generic urban fantasy games and don't want any more specific identity than that, then my advice to them would be to get the rights to WitchCraft and revive it instead of making their own game. It is the generic urban fantasy setting. It is broad, flexible, unexplored... it should be the first priority for the urban fantasy tabletop market, not WoD.

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Thomas Shey said:

I'm a bit agnostic about it. But Micah did ask you that question twice, and you kind of stepped around it. If that's what you feel, I think saying so is the proper way to go.

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RenleyRenfield said:

I am not sure what you want here from this?

It felt like an implied strawman. It felt like saying "so always never say anything bad?". At no point is there any "always do X" and that is my point. If folks consider my earlier posts, it comes down to "sure, say what you hope for, say what you miss, say if you like a new change or not. Sometimes is ok, sometimes its requested. Sometimes it can be phrased as constructive. So someone forcing black and white is making a strawman.
But don't go to star wars, chaosium, paizo, paradox site and constantly complain about their lore changes." I think my posts are quite clear on that. My star wars at a convention example states why that should generally be avoided.

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RenleyRenfield said:

I am not sure what you want here from this?

It felt like an implied strawman. It felt like saying "so always never say anything bad?". At no point is there any "always do X" and that is my point. If folks consider my earlier posts, it comes down to "sure, say what you hope for, say what you miss, say if you like a new change or not. Sometimes is ok, sometimes its requested. Sometimes it can be phrased as constructive. So someone forcing black and white is making a strawman.
But don't go to star wars, chaosium, paizo, paradox site and constantly complain about their lore changes." I think my posts are quite clear on that. My star wars at a convention example states why that should generally be avoided.

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Micah Sweet said:

People who don't like the sequel trilogy (to use your Star Wars example) are still Star Wars fans, and IMO they should be allowed to express their dislike of recent installations of the franchise. I can talk about my issues with Episodes VIII and IX and also what I enjoyed about the Mandalorian, Andor, The Bad Batch, and Skeleton Crew in the same conversation, and feel good about all of it.

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