0 Level Character Rules are up

[tuxgeo]

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What really appeals to me is the idea that your role can change from round to round depending on what the party needs at the moment. Taking a beating? Someone act like a Leader or a Defender for a round! Facing a solo? Everyone go nova with Strikers and Controllers! You can "be balanced" and have all four, or you can deliberately unbalance yourself in a gambit for early victory, or to change with the composition of your enemy party.

Gotta go think of how to do that....

Is it really that much of a problem? Eschew balanced parties by changing the mix of enemies that the DM throws at them. "Nothing but Strikers" can work if you're not running off-the-shelf adventures exactly as written, right?

If you want the actual classes to be role-agnostic, that looks to me like a job of rewriting the entire game as a new edition. (This is probably a simple lack of imagination on my part, though. . . .)

 

[Obryn]

One of the hardest things I have to do as a DM is look at a player who is very excited about playing a rogue or a warlock or an assassin, and be like, "Okay, you can, but we already have two strikers and a controller, so if you could be a CLERIC or a FIGHTER or something that is totally the opposite of the kind of slick cool character you envisioned for yourself, that would help you to not die."

I'd much rather be like, "Okay, you can be a Warlock."

Themes, man. Themes.

We have a Warlock in our game who's both an effective AoE striker, and a moderately effective Leader. The Templar theme is pretty much golden; I think he's taken more than half his powers from it.

-O

 

[I'm A Banana]

Is it really that much of a problem? Eschew balanced parties by changing the mix of enemies that the DM throws at them. "Nothing but Strikers" can work if you're not running off-the-shelf adventures exactly as written, right?

If you want the actual classes to be role-agnostic, that looks to me like a job of rewriting the entire game as a new edition. (This is probably a simple lack of imagination on my part, though. . . .)

Well, it becomes a problem with the design assumptions of the game. The damage of brutes and artillery takes into account the fact that there is a leader available, for instance. I could not use those monsters, but that puts limits on my ability to imagine awesome adventures for the party, which isn't great.

It's also that a feature I'm enamored of with these 0-level rules is that your role can change from round to round. At the moment, your role is your class, and it won't change for the duration of that character. The Feywild Barbarian is supposedly going to change that up a bit, but I like the idea of adapting your tactics round-by-round as you actually play the game, rather than house it all in chargen. It makes the game feel a lot more dynamic if you have to pay attention to all the roles to see where you can best make your contribution. Instead of just making sure bloodied characters are healed or you are adjacent to your marks, you have to track a few different axes. Which seems awesome!

Themes, man. Themes.

We have a Warlock in our game who's both an effective AoE striker, and a moderately effective Leader. The Templar theme is pretty much golden; I think he's taken more than half his powers from it.

Yeah, but that's a patch. Speaking as someone who has been relegated to "nobody chose the Leader or the Defender, so that's you for the next campaign, bud!" more than once, being heavily cajoled to choose certain limited archetypes is a hassle. I'd really like for there to be a way to change your role round-by-round so that the party can do what they want without having to consider "balance" if they don't want to, while still remaining balanced. Not to mention loosening the "You only have one job, and that is all you have to do" feel of the roles in general.

I think it could work, really. Just turn the basic role mechanics (area effects, extra damage, marks, and 2/encounter healing surges) into four specific powers, and have them be triggered once per round (maybe using the minor action)...you might not be able to use "traditional" class roles along with them, but it might work...

 

[tuxgeo]

How about this? -- Each character receives one "Versatility Token" after completing each encounter, regardless of the outcome of the encounter. Tokens are spendable only on the character's turn (not triggered out of turn), and no more than one token may be spent per round by any one character.
When a token is spent, it bestows a rider of the character's choice to exactly one attack the character makes that round, regardless of whether it is At-Will, Encounter, or Daily; and with each use, the rider to be bestowed is selected from the list (one option each for Leader, Controller, Striker, and Defender) for that character's power source (arcane, divine, martial, primal, psionic, or shadow).

Admittedly, I'm not breaking any new ground here; and this approach might be terrible, due to the synergies or lack thereof between the available riders for a power source, on one hand, and the various different attack powers available from that same power source, on the other hand. Designing a coherent yet still balanced set of riders for any one power source might be beyond the realm of possibility (into the realm of fantasy?).

 

[Gaming Tonic]

If you choose not to use these rules then that is okay. If you want to delve into this realm of fledgling PC's then this article offers a lot to get your mental juices flowing. I love the idea of a campaign starting at 0 level and then continuing all the way to 30th. I don't think the rules presented here complicate the transition to 1st level and are consistent with the core rules. Hats off to the Chatty DM!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Almost everyone has to start somewhere and some people like this approach. Some people like to actually see their characters go from the normal Joe to the world saving heroes of legend.

Your level 1 character is not very tough at all in 4e... I believe the level 0 rules do what they should do. Give the chance of a single adventure to advance to heroic...

I would not want D&D to have more than one or at most 2 of those levels...

If you look at older editions, it is level 2 where you started to be better than the average goblin You have all important class features (a bard gets access to spells) and your HP is high enough to not die to a random blow from a goblin.

The only thing that bothers me at level 1 in 4e is not the "power" of the classes, but the number of powers already available.

So IMHO you could easily fit some extra "levels" between 0 and 1:

1. only race powers (level 0)
2. only race and theme powers (optional level 0.5)
3. a multiclass feat from your class which usually end in getting one defining feature as an encounter/daily.
...

i think you may get the point...

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Your level 1 character is not very tough at all in 4e... I believe the level 0 rules do what they should do. Give the chance of a single adventure to advance to heroic...

I would not want D&D to have more than one or at most 2 of those levels...

If you look at older editions, it is level 2 where you started to be better than the average goblin You have all important class features (a bard gets access to spells) and your HP is high enough to not die to a random blow from a goblin.

The only thing that bothers me at level 1 in 4e is not the "power" of the classes, but the number of powers already available.

So IMHO you could easily fit some extra "levels" between 0 and 1:

1. only race powers (level 0)
2. only race and theme powers (optional level 0.5)
3. a multiclass feat from your class which usually end in getting one defining feature as an encounter/daily.
...

i think you may get the point...

I understand exactly what you are saying. Right now it's like the PC's just woke up and suddenly they had powers. Where did they learn them from?

If PC's are supposed to be the only PC's around then how do they learn their powers? This is something that has always bothered me with the current incarnation. I know some people can fit this into a story but from my understanding the PC's are supposed to be unique from day one. Well I want to know why they are so unique and where did they learn their craft.

 

[wedgeski]

I understand exactly what you are saying. Right now it's like the PC's just woke up and suddenly they had powers. Where did they learn them from?

Themes, backgrounds, and as much back-story as you want! 4E at 1st-level picks up your PC's as they realise they're a cut above, destined for a greatness few can attain, and about to make their mark on the world.

The rules as laid out are very neat, and I can see them being a lot of fun to play, but I don't personally see any need for them.

 

[Scribble]

I understand exactly what you are saying. Right now it's like the PC's just woke up and suddenly they had powers. Where did they learn them from?

If PC's are supposed to be the only PC's around then how do they learn their powers? This is something that has always bothered me with the current incarnation. I know some people can fit this into a story but from my understanding the PC's are supposed to be unique from day one. Well I want to know why they are so unique and where did they learn their craft.

There are other wizards and warriors and such around to teach them (npcs and stuff.)

As for what makes them heres... Personally I'd rather the game didn't try to define that for me. My group and I can determine the how or why of it.

The PCs aren't special because of the powers they have- they're special in a storybook kind of way. They have "moxie" that other people don't have. It's probably what drives them to get up and do what they do in the first place.

At least in my opinion.

 

[Nichwee]

I understand exactly what you are saying. Right now it's like the PC's just woke up and suddenly they had powers. Where did they learn them from?

If PC's are supposed to be the only PC's around then how do they learn their powers? This is something that has always bothered me with the current incarnation. I know some people can fit this into a story but from my understanding the PC's are supposed to be unique from day one. Well I want to know why they are so unique and where did they learn their craft.

What makes John Maclain different than any other cop?
What makes Gimli different than any other dwarf?
What makes Harry Potter different than any other Hogwarts student?
What makes Conan different than any other warrior?
What makes Tassleholf Burrfoot different than any other kender?
What makes Bruce Wayne different than any other rich kid?
What made Robin Hood different than any other woodsman?

These are all heroes whose skill set isn't that special - when compared to the normal for their worlds.
They are special because when time came for heroes to arrive they were the ones standing up to do so, rather than the masses waiting for someone to stand up. And this choice changed them and taught them things that normal people just don't get. They may not have "powers" that others don't but they use them in a way that is unique - they use them to "save the f-ing day" rather than to just get through the day, which is what most people do.
Most wizards would use magic to cook, clean, help at work - heroic wizards use it to stop tyrants. Normal woodsman use bows to hunt for their dinner, heroic ones use them to fight off the army of orcs that pours from the mountains at night.

D&D 4e just assumes you start the game after that first choice to "stand up and be counted" that changed the way you look at, and interact within, the world. 0th Level lets you have the adventure that was that first choice. But once you have made that choice you have become a HERO.

How many characters in stories start as a commoner/farmboy etc? Now, how many of them are still commoners/farmboys by the end of the first book/film/story they are in? It is a common trope that once you have stepped into the mantle of a hero the die is cast - you are a hero.
And this is how I see 4e working. The skills are not so rare that others have no concept of them, or that others couldn't learn them for themselves (tho some power sources can be a "born with the knack" type), but those willing to turn those skills to the work of adventuring/being heroes are still a rare and valuable breed.