"+2 bonus to ..." feats

[ValhallaGH]

They are good feats, and extremely useful if you require skill checks for any sort of interaction. The thing is, you only get so many feats, making those less attractive than some of the others.

The only character I've had a lot of those types of feats with is in a campaign with Education Feats, and I've been very glad to have them.
Education Feats: At first level, fifth level and every five levels thereafter you gain a bonus feat. This feat must be either Skill Focus or one of the +2 to two skills feats.

The real problem is that they aren't as sexy, or as core to the concept of the character, as many other feats, making them much less attractive. They don't let you do anything new, they just let you do some things better. That makes them less appealing than, say, two weapon fighting, so they get chosen less often.

 

[Meeki]

It depends on what sort of game you play. My games I dm are very skill intensive. The hybrid feats are the only way players can increase their a skill even further than Skill Focus. The +2 to this and that feats may seem weak in campaigns where those skills aren't used that often but I try to tailor my campaigns to use most of the skills the PC's possess.

skill focus +this and that feat =+5 to a skill. Individually weak feats but when options run out (synergies, other feats, class abilities, etc) the +2 this and that feats are the only things left.

 

[Grymar]

I give them out as background feats for players to take. Everyone gets one of the "+2 to 2 skills" feats for free at character creation to support his backstory.

I've sometimes then considered those to be class skills for the character from then on out.

Either way, it has done nothing to hurt balance that I have seen and it is an enjoyable perk for the players.

 

[AnonymousOne]

In my games I have this little system I call a Trait System. It basically allows players to take some of the less desirable feats every so many levels without 'wasting' a feat on them.

I could post it here for you if you'd like.

-Gene

Please do.

 

[krissbeth]

In my games I have this little system I call a Trait System. It basically allows players to take some of the less desirable feats every so many levels without 'wasting' a feat on them.

I could post it here for you if you'd like.

-Gene

The DMs I play with allow these +2/+2 feats as traits too. They're a waste of a (precious, precious) feat slot otherwise. They're barely as good as skill tricks.

 

[SokenzanMarauder]

Please do.

'Kay, sorry it took so long. Also, I haven't updated it recently so I've yet to add some additional books.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Trait: Every character gets a trait at first level, one at fourth level and an additional trait every fourth level after that (eight, twelve, sixteen, twenty). These traits can be used to select from a small list of less “useful” feats but standard feats can still be used to earn feats attainable through earned traits. Humans do not gain a bonus trait at first level.

Note: Traits are treated in every way like a feat with the exception that they are selected from the list below and are earned every four levels instead of every three.

The following feats from the following books can be taken as traits:

Complete Adventurer:

Brutal Throw**
Insightful Reflexes**
Open Minded*
Tactile Trapsmith**

Complete Arcane:

Communicator*
Necropolis Born*
Night Haunt*
Soul of the North*
Spell Hand*

Complete Divine:

None

Complete Psionic:

None

Complete Warrior:

Dash

Draconomicon

None

Heroes of Battle:

Guerilla Scout**
Guerilla Warrior**

Heroes of Horror:

Bane Magic*
Dream Telling

Libris Mortis:

Enduring Life*
Necromantic Presence*
Unquenchable Flame of Life

Player’s Handbook:

Acrobatic
Agile
Alertness
Athletic
Deceitful
Deft Hands
Endurance*
Great Fortitude*
Investigator
Iron Will*
Lightning Reflexes*
Magical Aptitude
Negotiator
Nimble Fingers
Persuasive
Run
Self-Sufficient
Skill Focus*
Stealthy
Toughness*

Player’s Handbook II:

Bonded Familiar***
Grenadier

Races of Destiny

Inside Connection**
Resourceful Buyer*

Races of the Dragon:

Kobold Endurance***
Kobold Foe Strike***

Races of Stone

None

Races of the Wild

None

Sandstorm:

Scorpion’s Resolve*

* Requires DM permission / May be unbalancing
** Requires DM permission / Doesn’t necessarily fit the idea of a trait
*** Requires Prerequisite
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

-Gene

 

[Vrecknidj]

I give them out as background feats for players to take. Everyone gets one of the "+2 to 2 skills" feats for free at character creation to support his backstory.

I did something similar. I made a long list of feats that quite a few players never took and made them available as a free bonus feat at 7th level. I made another list available for 13th level. (This campaign was designed to go up to 40th, we're at around 25th right now.) The idea was that the place they played was particularly rough and tough and the PCs would be very robust, but that this robustness would be expressed in a variety of ways. Given the harshness of the setting, I knew my players would be overlooking some of these "flavor" feats, but I wanted the campaign to have this flavor, so I gave them away as bonuses for having gotten to those levels.

In a campaign I play in, I have a character that has taken a few of the +2/+2 feats, and a Skill Focus, and a Spell Focus feat. Of course, it's a very heavily role-playing based setting, and she's a Loremaster...

Dave

 

[GreatLemur]

The worst thing about these feats--besides wasting precious PHB / SRD real estate on really boring character options--is that their simplicity makes them easier for for new players to understand than a lot of the more useful feats. The newbie Rogue will look at the PHB and think "Stealthy, huh? That's obviously perfect for me." a lot more readily than they'll think "Wow, Mobility and Spring Attack would work great with my Sneak Attack ability, so I'd better take Dodge." Of course, this is a failure in the descriptions of Mobility and Spring Attack more than anything else, but I can't help but think of the skill bonus feats as newb traps.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Yes, they're very underpowered. In general, I dislike Feats that simply give a flat numerical bonus to something the player could already have raised normally. (Weapon Focus is the other culprit here, but since D&D tends to be combat-centric, that's not so bad.) Feats, IMO, should provide something NEW, something that people without the Feat can't do.

So, what we did was this:

Skill Focus requires 5 ranks in the modified skill, and gives three bonuses:
> You may Take 10 on this skill even under duress.
> On a skill check, if you roll a 5 or less, you may re-roll; the results of the new roll stand, even if they're still below 5.
> This skill becomes a class skill for you, regardless of class.
(In practice, at least one of these three bonuses will be worthless; maybe the skill isn't a "duress" thing in the first place, maybe it was already one of your class skills.)
None of these are game-breaking bonuses; the re-roll < 5 adds 1.875 points to the roll, on average, so it's still roughly even in power to the +3 version of Skill Focus, but it's a LOT more interesting now.

The +2/+2 Feats, like Alertness, require 3 ranks in each of the skills, and simply give you ONE of the above three bonuses for each of the two skills (but which one each skill gets might vary). In general, we just let the players pick one for each of the two skills, although you could hard-code them if you wanted.

We also have Greater Skill Focus, which requires 10 ranks, and adds two more bonuses:
> The re-roll threshold of Skill Focus increases to 10 (you can re-roll any result below a 10)
> You can Take 20 even if there'd be a consequence for failure; it still takes 20 times as long as normal. (Effectively, you take 19 checks' worth of time planning it out, and then do it perfectly in one attempt.)

 

[rgard]

The worst thing about these feats--besides wasting precious PHB / SRD real estate on really boring character options--is that their simplicity makes them easier for for new players to understand than a lot of the more useful feats. The newbie Rogue will look at the PHB and think "Stealthy, huh? That's obviously perfect for me." a lot more readily than they'll think "Wow, Mobility and Spring Attack would work great with my Sneak Attack ability, so I'd better take Dodge." Of course, this is a failure in the descriptions of Mobility and Spring Attack more than anything else, but I can't help but think of the skill bonus feats as newb traps.

"Newb trap" This is actually funny.