Thanee said:
The formulations can mean anything...
"give up" could mean stop studying as well as forget whatever you knew about it.
"spells are not available" (from the prohibited school explanation) could mean, that you lose access to them, or that you cannot learn them anymore.
As I said, it's simply not ruled what happens with spells known.
Whatever it is. Common sense dictates, that you do not suddenly forget stuff you have learned. If it were some kind of ethical restriction (like druids using nonmetal armor), sure, but it's simply the fact, that you stop studying one school to focus on other fields that leads to the prohibited school.
First off, D&D is not a game based entirely upon common sense. I could go over countless rules that make absolutely no sense from a real life perspective. Almost the entire magic system is a good place to start for an example of that. Do you picture a real life Wizard (assuming such a thing was real) preparing spells? Heck, the idea of a specialist Wizard itself is one based more upon game mechanics than anything realistic. If a real-life Wizard were to deliberatley forsake the study of a school or schools to focus more intently on one, I don't think that it would look anything like the D&D specialist Wizard. He would probably just know alot more spells of his school.
Second, it is extremely disrespectful and insulting to just assume that your view is "common sense." No matter how much your opinion may make sense to you, there may be something you missed. And it might not occur to you that my view seems just as plausible to me. Unless you are insinuating that I either lack common sense or that I deliberatly set this sense aside to present and absurd point of view. Don't just go throwing around that what you say is "common sense" and what I say is not, unless of course you would like to start a rather unpleasant exchange of words that would probably get us both banned from the forums.
Thanee said:
Where is that rule?
It's just common sense, that sorcerers work "just like wizards" in this case.
So, why apply common sense to one but not to the other?
That was my point, that the Sorcerer would have the same rules for banned schools as a specialist Wizard does, since that is what the Focused Studies description says. You were trying to be belligerent and say that since Sorcerers have no rules for specialization in the PHB that they are exempt from the Focused Studies drawback.
Tell me, Thanee. Where is that rule? I don't see anything in that prestige class that says that only Wizards suffer its drawback, and not Sorcerers.
Thanee said:
You can't say, that it makes sense, what you claim, or can you?
Ok. Deep breaths.
I'm trying
very hard to not get belligerent and lash back at comments like this.
Of course I think that what I'm saying makes sense! Do you think I am just blabbing on and on for nothing? Actually, don't answer that. Let's not make this discussion any less civil.
But since what I am saying does not seem to make any sense to you, allow me to explain it in simpler terms. When an Incantatrix becomes an Incantatrix, she decides to further dedicate herself to the study of metamagic. This is very similar to the focus studies of a specialist Wizard, who gives up one area of study to dedicate himself more completely to another.
Now, obviously a specialist Wizard knows enough magical theory that, in reality, he could probably cast spells form his forbidden school if he really wanted to. At the very least he could study for awhile to gain that knowledge. Yet, in D&D, a specialist Wizard can't do this. He can never, ever learn those spells, no matter how hard he tried. Why? Game balance. This is one of those things where a little bit of realism gives way to the game.
And as far as losing the spells he already knows, it is similar. He would no doubt still remember those spells. He would still understand them. but in order to further his studies (or for whatever reason they care to explain), he has forsaken them. It's not as much that he can't use them, rather he won't use them. Perhaps, like the specilaist Wizard, there is some magical change in his very nature upon gaining the class that makes it so he can no longer use those spells. There can be many feasible explanations for how this works. Make up whatever one suits you most.
The point is, the minute you start applying your "common sense" to justify every little thing thats written in this game, it will start to fall apart. Most things in D&D have are metagame concepts and have no realistic explanation. You can't just go in selectively editing whatever you like simply because, to you, that is what makes sense. Of course, feel free to do to your games whatever you wish, but unless you would prefer to start posting under the house rule forum, you need to bemindful of offciial rules here.
If the designers intended to allow the Incatatrix to keep the spells he knew and to continue to be able to use those spells from scrolls and spell trigger items, don't you think they would have said that? So either they made a mistake, or this is how it was intended to be all along. Like the Specialist Wizard, it may be there for balance purposes and doesn't have to make total sense. And you said it yourself, the red Wizard is less powerful than the Incantatrix, which is perhaps why they recieve more leniency.
Thanee said:
For what it's worth... WotC customer service agrees with me.
I would certainly
prefer it to work the way that you have said, and I have stated this repeatedly throughout this debate, but the rules leave serious doubt as to whether or not that is the case. If they wanted it to work like the Red Wizard does, all they had to do was add a few words.
And I wouldn't get too excited about what Wizard's Customer Service says. They have been known to be totally wrong before, and often two emails to them get two totally different responses.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
