D&D (2024) 2024 Spell Changes

[pukunui]

Not sure if this has come up already, but I see that Contagion has been changed to be a Con save vs necrotic dmg + poisoned and disadvantage on saves of a chosen ability type. The target then has to succeed in three saves to end the spell. If they fail three, the spell lasts for 7 days. The poisoned condition can also stick even if someone tries to get rid of it.

The main takeaway for me here is that there’s no mention of any diseases. This plus the fact that paladins and monks are no longer immune to disease makes me wonder if they’ve simply cut diseases out of the game entirely!

I fully expect madness to be gone from the 2024 DMG, so it’ll be interesting to see if diseases are gone too. (If so, I would also be interested to know why.)

 

[ECMO3]

The cleric can voluntarily fail the save to avoid being grappled.

He can fail the save, but they still have to hit with the attack roll to start with. I don't know that the rules allow for allowing yourself to be hit with an attack.

 

[pukunui]

He can fail the save, but they still have to hit with the attack roll to start with.

That’s not how I read it. Previously, you’d make an opposed check to grapple instead of making an attack roll. Now the target simply makes a saving throw instead of the attacker making an attack roll or an opposed check.

 

[ECMO3]

It's a saving throw, which they can fail.

My understanding is the grappling PC needs to suceed on an attack roll before and then can attempt the grapple. So your cleric in plate and shield has a 20AC that needs to be beat before the save even comes up.

That is my understanding of the new rules, but it could be wrong.

There's a feat for that.

So now the player has used a feat to be able to drag the SG Cleric around the battlefield a few times a day?

Maybe a caster, if they where going to use a cantrip anyways, and are already close.

They would need a high strength to hit reliably with an unarmed strike. Few full casters other than Clerics have high strength.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

It is an attack roll that the grappling PC needs to make.

Your choices with Unarmed Strike are...
Damage: Make an attack roll.
Grapple: Target rolls a save.
Shove: Target rolls a save.

 

[mellored]

Little bit of craziness...

Sorcerer 10 + Wizard 9 + Warlock 1

You need warlock 2 to get Agonizing Blast.

Also, Valor bard can attack + use Eldritch Blast each turn, and get conjure minor elemental with magic secrets.

 

[Chaosmancer]

My understanding is the grappling PC needs to suceed on an attack roll before and then can attempt the grapple. So your cleric in plate and shield has a 20AC that needs to be beat before the save even comes up.

That is my understanding of the new rules, but it could be wrong.

That is wrong. It is a save to grapple or shove, no initial attack roll at all.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Not sure if this has come up already, but I see that Contagion has been changed to be a Con save vs necrotic dmg + poisoned and disadvantage on saves of a chosen ability type. The target then has to succeed in three saves to end the spell. If they fail three, the spell lasts for 7 days. The poisoned condition can also stick even if someone tries to get rid of it.

Hmm, I think that is actually a really decent version of the spell. Will need to delve into the specifics first of course.

The main takeaway for me here is that there’s no mention of any diseases. This plus the fact that paladins and monks are no longer immune to disease makes me wonder if they’ve simply cut diseases out of the game entirely!

I fully expect madness to be gone from the 2024 DMG, so it’ll be interesting to see if diseases are gone too. (If so, I would also be interested to know why.)

Disease does seem to be gone entirely, and I think the reason why is pretty simple. They never used it. At least. not in a meaningful way.

Slaad had a disease that was a small egg, or a disease that turned you into a slaad.
Otyugh, Gas Spores, and death dogs had a disease that was essential poison, because being immune to poison covered them. Same with the Bulezau and Rutterkin,
Aboleths had a disease that changed you, and the only other one I can find was Zuggutmoy's spores.

So, since diseases were often just causing the poisoned condition, or were effectively curses and the very very few instances that weren't a poison or a curse were already unique abilities of monsters... it just makes sense to remove and rework those things into either the poisoned condition or a magical curse. Especially since a disease that is also a curse (because some specify that remove disease or remove curse would work) is easier to get rid of as a disease (lesser restoration lv 2) than a curse (Remove Curse lv 3). And since lesser restoration ALSO gets rid of the poisoned condition, if a disease poisoned you, then it could lead to weird interactions.

 

[pukunui]

Disease does seem to be gone entirely, and I think the reason why is pretty simple. They never used it. At least. not in a meaningful way.

Slaad had a disease that was a small egg, or a disease that turned you into a slaad.
Otyugh, Gas Spores, and death dogs had a disease that was essential poison, because being immune to poison covered them. Same with the Bulezau and Rutterkin,
Aboleths had a disease that changed you, and the only other one I can find was Zuggutmoy's spores.

So, since diseases were often just causing the poisoned condition, or were effectively curses and the very very few instances that weren't a poison or a curse were already unique abilities of monsters... it just makes sense to remove and rework those things into either the poisoned condition or a magical curse. Especially since a disease that is also a curse (because some specify that remove disease or remove curse would work) is easier to get rid of as a disease (lesser restoration lv 2) than a curse (Remove Curse lv 3). And since lesser restoration ALSO gets rid of the poisoned condition, if a disease poisoned you, then it could lead to weird interactions.

Hmm. That prompted me to look at the detect poison and disease spell, which still bears that name. Interestingly, it now talks about "poisons, poisonous or venomous creatures, and magical contagions"!

Firstly, that's great that they're acknowledging the difference between poisonous and venomous creatures (although I'm guessing the latter will still just do poison damage / impose the poisoned condition), but also that it specifically talks about magical diseases (or contagions, rather).

So it does indeed seem like maybe regular, non-magical diseases just won't exist anymore.

 

[the Jester]

I may have missed this, but has magic missile been clarified to remove/revise the ridiculous "roll one d4, apply to the damage of each missile" ruling?