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D&D 5E 20th level Wizard vs the World

Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
Wizards learn magic. Sorcerers are magic.
Aasimar Divine Soul Sorcerer are effectively a demigod creature.

Behold, The DEMIGOD.

View attachment 130953

Stats
Race: Scourge Aasimar (+2 CHA +1 CON)
Classes: Divine Soul Sorcerer 20
Stats (Point Buy): 8 STR / 14 DEX / 15 CON / 10 INT / 10 WIS / 14 CHA
ASIs: Actor (+1 CHA), Skill Expert (Deception +1CHA), Metamagic Adept, Inspire Leadership, Tough
Final Stats: 8 STR / 14 DEX / 16 CON / 10 INT / 10 WIS / 18 CHA
Final HP: 180 + 35 (Extended 8th Aid Spell ) + 24 (Inspire Leadership)
Disguise kit, Expertise Deception, Actor feat, Magical Guidance, Extended Seeming Spell. It can be everything.
Metamagics: Quicken, Twin, Extended, Subtle, Distant, Empower
Wished Contingency condition: When I can't cast spell (Greater Restouration)

Spell Known:

Spells
1 -
2 - Aid Spell, Warding Bong
3 - Counterspell, Dispel
4 - Dimention Door
5 - Greater Restouration, Insect Plague, Summon Celestial, Seeming Spell
6 - Freezing Sphere, Heal
7 - Finger of Death, Etherealness
8 - Power Word Stun, Antimagic Field
9 - Wish



Loyal and Reliable Minions:

Extended Seeeming spell on all your allies to have a unique heavenly appearance.
In practice, this works like an Improved Mirror Image, creating multiple copies of you.
You can cast spells with impunity with subtle spells and enemies will not be able to find out who the real caster is.
Naruto's Shadow Clone.
The Sorcerer and all of his allies can fly and we have 2 Celestials (Summon Celestial) that are summoned to attack at 600 for 144 damage each turn for 2 hours duration.

1) Twinned Simulacrum.

2) Wished Create Magen.
With, Inspire Leadership, Upcasted Aid and Tough feat.
You can create several of these constructs, because you have a lot of HP available. You can also buff them with Inspire Leadership spell.

Galven Magen is the best pick.
Flying creature
Static Discharge (Recharge 5–6).
The magen discharges a lightning bolt in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw (with disadvantage if the creature is wearing armor made of metal), taking 22 (4d10) lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

3) Extended 8th level Summon Celestial x2 (Simulacrum and the Sorcerer)
Well, 8th avenger celestial is a flying creature dealing 68 damage per turn at 600ft. 2 Creatures is insane.

4) Twin Finger of Death

It is a reliable way to expand your arm. 2x faster than any other spellcaster.

5) Simulacrum's extended Warding Bond gives you resistence against all damage

6) You have super strong long range spells, combined with Aasimar Ability. You can deals incredible damage. Long range spell combined with flight spell is insane.
All doubled with Simulacrum

Empowered Distant Freezing Sphere can deal 125 damage
Combined with Summon Celestial, It can deals more than 260 damage at 600ft.

7) Power Word Stun, Antimagic Field, Wish
all situational spells.





If they were having difficulties against a level 11 Sorcerer, imagine it against the DEMIGOD.
Still killed by the Divine Intervention used by a cleric somewhere in the world. You have no way of finding them before their roll succeeds.
 

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Al'Kelhar

Adventurer
Wizards learn magic. Sorcerers are magic.
Aasimar Divine Soul Sorcerer are effectively a demigod creature.

Behold, The DEMIGOD.

Stats
Race: Scourge Aasimar (+2 CHA +1 CON)
Classes: Divine Soul Sorcerer 20
Stats (Point Buy): 8 STR / 14 DEX / 15 CON / 10 INT / 10 WIS / 14 CHA
ASIs: Actor (+1 CHA), Skill Expert (Deception +1CHA), Metamagic Adept, Inspire Leadership, Tough
Final Stats: 8 STR / 14 DEX / 16 CON / 10 INT / 10 WIS / 18 CHA
Final HP: 180 + 35 (Extended 8th Aid Spell ) + 24 (Inspire Leadership)
Disguise kit, Expertise Deception, Actior, Magical Guidance, Extended Seeming Spell. It can be everything.
Metamagics: Quicken, Twin, Extended, Subtle, Distant, Empower
Wished Contingency condition: When I can't cast spell (Greater Restouration)

Spell Known:

Spells
1 -
2 - Aid Spell, Warding Bong
3 - Counterspell, Dispel
4 - Dimention Door
5 - Greater Restouration, Insect Plague, Summon Celestial, Seeming Spell
6 - Freezing Sphere, Heal
7 - Finger of Death, Etherealness
8 - Power Word Stun, Antimagic Field
9 - Wish



Loyal and Reliable Minions:

Extended Seeeming spell on all your allies to have a unique heavenly appearance.
In practice, this works like an Improved Mirror Image, creating multiple copies of you.
You can cast spells with impunity with subtle spells and enemies will not be able to find out who the real caster is.
Naruto's Shadow Clone.
The Sorcerer and all of his allies can fly and we 2 Celestials (Summon Celestial) that are summoned to attack at 600 for 144 damage each turn for 2 hours duration.

1) Twinned Simulacrum.

2) Wished Create Magen.
With, Inspire Leadership, Upcasted Aid and Tough feat.
You can create several of these constructs, because you have a lot of HP available. You can also buff them with Inspire Leadership spell.

Galven Magen is the best pick.
Flying creature
Static Discharge (Recharge 5–6).
The magen discharges a lightning bolt in a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw (with disadvantage if the creature is wearing armor made of metal), taking 22 (4d10) lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

3) Extended 8th level Summon Celestial x2 (Simulacrum and the Sorcerer)
Well, 8th avenger celestial is a flying creature dealing 68 damage per turn at 600ft. 2 Creatures is insane.

4) Twin Finger of Death

It is a reliable way to expand your arm. 2x faster than any other spellcaster.

5) Simulacrum's extended Warding Bond gives you resistence against all damage

6) You have super strong long range spells, combined with Aasimar Ability. You can deals incredible damage. Long range spell combined with flight spell is insane.
All doubled with Simulacrum

Empowered Distant Freezing Sphere can deal 125 damage
Combined with Summon Celestial, It can deals more than 260 damage at 600ft.

7) Power Word Stun, Antimagic Field, Wish
all situational spells.





If they were having difficulties against a level 11 Sorcerer, imagine it against the DEMIGOD.
OMG. You really just don't get it.

Int 10.

Wis 10.

This guy is a dumbass. At what point in time do you think this guy will figure out that there's some hyper-intelligent being out there manipulating reality to its liking? Assuming that said hyper-intelligent being hasn't organised world affairs to ensure this guy doesn't live past three hours old. As far as I can tell, this guy is just going to be thinking he's awesome sauce in some Matrix-like reality created for the amusement of the hyper-intelligent being.

Yep, keep spending those hours creating fancy sorcerers. It won't change the fact you've completely missed the point of this discussion.

Cheers, Al'kelhar
 

Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
OMG. You really just don't get it.

Int 10.

Wis 10.

This guy is a dumbass. At what point in time do you think this guy will figure out that there's some hyper-intelligent being out there manipulating reality to its liking? Assuming that said hyper-intelligent being hasn't organised world affairs to ensure this guy doesn't live past three hours old. As far as I can tell, this guy is just going to be thinking he's awesome sauce in some Matrix-like reality created for the amusement of the hyper-intelligent being.

Yep, keep spending those hours creating fancy sorcerers. It won't change the fact you've completely missed the point of this discussion.

Cheers, Al'kelhar
Are you somehow implying a +0 WIS save is a giant handicap????
 






Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
Wis save?
Do it. :ROFLMAO:
Sure, I'll do one ...

My wizard, 5 monk buddies, and on invisible stalker I summoned.

Ethereal.....travel 8 hours to where you are based at.

Round 1 (surprise)
Invisible stalker: Unerringly moves to the real you and attacks.
Wizard: Antimagic Field, stands next to you.
Monks: Proceed to grapple, stun, and pummel you to death.

Your summoned minions would pop away like my stalker in my field. You can't take any actions before you are dead.

Done.
 

Hohige

Explorer
Sure, I'll do one ...

My wizard, 5 monk buddies, and on invisible stalker I summoned.

Ethereal.....travel 8 hours to where you are based at.

Round 1 (surprise)
Invisible stalker: Unerringly moves to the real you and attacks.
Wizard: Antimagic Field, stands next to you.
Monks: Proceed to grapple, stun, and pummel you to death.

Your summoned minions would pop away like my stalker in my field. You can't take any actions before you are dead.

Done.
Now We have Monks and Invisible Stalker ? Lol Really? It was fun.
Locate a creature while ethereal. Omg its Fun. But, It Failed.
"Faultless Tracker: The Stalker is given a quarry by its summoner. The Stalker knows the direction and distance to its quarry as long as the two of them are on the same plane of existence. The Stalker also knows the location of its summoner."


Also, we have more than 40 creatures disguised with Seeming Spell and mundane disguise, including the Sorcerer.
 
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Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
Now We have Monks and Invisible Stalker ? Lol Really? It was fun.
Locate a creature while ethereal. Omg its Fun.


We have more than 40 creatures disguised with Seeming Spell and mundane disguise, including the Sorcerer.
Its fun.
I didnt see locate creature on your spell list. Is that a shrodingers sorcerer ability you just have for no reason?

Also you can't disguise yourself from the stalker, it knows which one is really you in the monster description.
 

Hohige

Explorer
I didnt see locate creature on your spell list. Is that a shrodingers sorcerer ability you just have for no reason?

Also you can't disguise yourself from the stalker, it knows which one is really you in the monster description.
its failed again. You cant do It when you are on ethereal plane.

"Faultless Tracker: The Stalker is given a quarry by its summoner. The Stalker knows the direction and distance to its quarry as long as the two of them are on the same plane of existence. The Stalker also knows the location of its summoner."

Also, The wizard doesnt know who or what is the Sorcerer. Its master of disguise and deception.

Poor Wizard. Monks? LoL.
Its a bad death. Using Antimagic Field against a flying creature but The Wizard cant fly.
 
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Zio_the_dark

The dark one :)
Epic
There's a specific thread for Schrodinger to expose his might in a duel please take that here


This one is about wizard dominating the world and you always derail the initial subject with things that have been said to not exist in the world the op has described.
 

Zio_the_dark

The dark one :)
Epic
2) for the world, we will assume the 20th level wizard is the top dog. There are a handful of people levels 11-12, everyone past that has moved on to do their own thing. There are of course more level 8-10 people but still pretty rare. Let’s assume 5th level and lower is more common, and then you have nigh infinite 1st level people.

put another way, the world has access to a few 6th and 5th level spells (of any class), 4th level spells are rare but out there, 3rd and 2nd level magic is fairly easy to muster, and 1st level spells are practically infinite.
 

Iry

Hero
I didnt see locate creature on your spell list. Is that a shrodingers sorcerer ability you just have for no reason?
I think he means the Wizard cannot locate the Sorcerer on the Ethereal plane.
But the World Wizard can see the Ethereal plane, because Diviner.
 

Hohige

Explorer
I think he means the Wizard cannot locate the Sorcerer on the Ethereal plane.
But the World Wizard can see the Ethereal plane, because Diviner.
He cannot locate, dont know who is your target
The best defende against Wizards is deception. The Sorcerer can be everyone or everything.
The best about It...The WTF 5 monks 😂
 

Iry

Hero
He cannot locate, dont know who is your target
The best defende against Wizards is deception. The Sorcerer can be everyone or everything.
The best about It...The WTF 5 monks 😂
Divination gives truthful answers out to 7 Days. It does require a little finesse, but she should be able to narrow it down and get your true name in under a month. Literally 20 Questions. :ROFLMAO:
 

Hohige

Explorer
Divination gives truthful answers out to 7 Days. It does require a little finesse, but she should be able to narrow it down and get your true name in under a month. Literally 20 Questions. :ROFLMAO:
I Love It, because I know every Wizard's trick. They cannot fight The Sorcerer, because they are weak. they will try divination, indirect combat. I created The Master of Deception and Disguise to foil every Wizard attempt.
What is the questions?
 

auburn2

Explorer
I was having a fun debate with my gaming group. In 3rd edition, we all agreed that a high level wizard could take over a world pretty trivially.

but how about 5e? The promise of bounded accuracy and more limited spells suggests it should be harder for a powerful wizard to just run the show. But is it still possible? Can a 20th level wizard with access to the full arsenal of magic conquer the world?

so let’s make some assumptions:

1) since magic items are technically optional, let’s limit their use. So people can have some basic magic weapon, magic armor kind of thing, but no items with “crazy effects”. This is about the power of the class not what items can be found.

2) for the world, we will assume the 20th level wizard is the top dog. There are a handful of people levels 11-12, everyone past that has moved on to do their own thing. There are of course more level 8-10 people but still pretty rare. Let’s assume 5th level and lower is more common, and then you have nigh infinite 1st level people.

put another way, the world has access to a few 6th and 5th level spells (of any class), 4th level spells are rare but out there, 3rd and 2nd level magic is fairly easy to muster, and 1st level spells are practically infinite.

3) no simulacrum cheese. We already know it’s a winning tactic so let’s take it off the table

4) any official class and spell is fair game. Nothing UA, but if it’s official it’s legal for the debate.

5) for the wizard, choose any race and subclass you wish, feats are in, assume he has as many spells as you need in the spell book. But no multi classing, it’s a pure wizard.

so with that in mind, put on your scheming hats pinky and the brain style, and see how to take over the world!!
No. I don't think so. There are too many high level monsters in the world.

There are a good 10 or so liches running around, they are almost your equal at the start and some of them are commanding their own Army of undead and humans, including high-level vampire and human casters and warriors.

The good dragons and the lawful dragons would band together to stop your takeover and you would be no match for their combined might.

Someone going into a fight against a wizard can get a lot of mileage out of a few simple magic items or spells.

A 20th lever wizard could probably take over a small country, or a big city like waterdeep, but not the world.
 

Caliburn101

Explorer
I think that it's also short sighted. Take a world like eberron where you dn't have a tier 3+ retired adventurer poing as the baker butcher & shopkeeper in every other town & limit the scope to just khorvaire were there's not really much of anything capable of challenging a level 20 anything. Under those conditions the only reason a level 20 would need to take over rather than using their power to participate in & enjoy the fruits of a productive reasonably stable advanced civilization is if that level 20 were criminally insane. Once you dive into that sort of crazy all of the convoluted schemes are likely to fall apart through incompetence in the face of the actual chessmasters in the world. Even if the level 20 wanted to do something like horrific arcane experiments on people for whatever reason, taking over the world is an absurd amount of effort when it could be done quietly in a remote area or even with funding from a proto-megacorp like ta dragonmarked house or a functioning established nation state interested enough in results to keep prying eyes/legal complications away.

Faerun may lack nations & governance due to rule by a continual series of violent overthrow of the last absetee warlord dubbed adventurer but even a crapsack world like darksun has numerous powers wielding the clout of a functioning nationstate complete with functioning military/policing/etc or similar but parallel levels of power who would just give the level 20 a cushy job mostly consisting of doing the thing they wanted to take over the world for.

Due to bounded accuracy & the assumption of no feats no magic items, any level 20 has been a fully functional armed & equipped T-X for many levels even if not using those things in their build. That makes the level 20 bar just silly
Perhaps there is a corner case argument that everyone with a great deal of personal power who wants control over the world and will leverage their power to get it is criminally insane... but human history is FULL of this stuff.

As for Faerun - as an ex-archaeologist and student of anthropology and ancient history, I can tell you that it makes little sense as a world and the conveyor belt of world-ending problems it suffers without anything really changing underlines this - spellplague aside (which was undone because the default status quo has too much weight). It is a kitchen sink hodgepotch, and I don't think it every claimed to be anything else. It was developed as a place to tell children's stories at first, and it shows.

Greyhawk makes much more sense, as does Dark Sun, Krynn and Eberron etc. They are the products of worldbuilders, not 'I need somewhere, anywhere to host adventures' storytellers...
 

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