$271 gas tax burden for every man, woman, and child in US

[Ferret]

I know! Its horrific. That's mainly because continental buses are owned by their government, the English ones are private. But enough of that, I don't want to get political.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Though I could easily be wrong my impression of western Europe is that it has much more public transportation infrastructure than America. That in general a western European would be driving far less distance than the average American is required to in many parts of the country because of different infrastructure development patterns. Outside of the metropolitan areas there is no public transportation at all in large parts of America and infrastructure sprawled making you cover much more distance to get where you need to go.

Yep. Where I'm from (Western Kentucky) the only form of public transit was the school bus. We lived about three miles from the nearest town (of about 2000 people) and grocery, 15 miles from the county seat (3000 people) and the Wal-Mart, 45 minutes to the nearest movie theater, and an hour to the nearest mall and airport.

I am so blissfully happy to not have to pay for a car, insurance on said car, taxes on said car, or maintenance, including gas. This makes it possible for me to eat out and keep up with my D&D collection. It would be completely impossible for me to not own a car, were I still living at home.

Hrm. How much do cars in Europe cost, anyway?

Brad

 

[Morrus]

I've heard that the main difference between American and British thinking is that Americans think 200 years is a long time, and Brits think 200 miles is a long ways.

Bullgrit

Total Bullgrit

Something that gets a lot of play on the internet every time this discussion comes up. It's a nice soundbyte, but it has no practical effect on the average person's life.

The average US citizens drives 29 miles per day, accoridng to the US Dept. of Transport. The average English citizen travels 26 miles per day, according to the UK DMV. The distances are roughly similar.

Yes, the US is much larger. No, US citizens do not travel across it to go to work. typicall, they live in the same town or city as their workplace, or in a nearby suburb town - much like English citizens.

I'm not making an argument - or even offering an opinion - on the fuel cost differences. But the "we have to travel 2000 miles to get to work every day" response that this discussion invariably, repeatedly, and automatically gives rise to is a fallacy. I've seen it on every messagebaord I've ever visited. It comes up on FARK once every couple of weeks, it has been repeated to be ad nauseum by friends in the US. It's usually supported by anecdotal evidence form a couple of people who maintain that they have to travel a long distance, and therefore everyone does. Sure, there are exceptions. They'll no doubt pop up anecdotally in this thread. But, on average, it's the same. For example, there are a LOT of people in New York, Chicago, etc., who travel less than 3 miles to go to work. If that.

It's not actually true.

The daily distances are the same. The fuel price differences exist, but have nothing to do with that.

 

[prospero63]

Something that gets a lot of play on the internet every time this discussion comes up. It's a nice soundbyte, but it has no practical effect on the average person's life.

The average US citizens drives 29 miles per day, accoridng to the US Dept. of Transport. The average English citizen travels 26 miles per day, according to the UK DMV. The distances are roughly similar.

Yes, the US is much larger. No, US citizens do not travel across it to go to work. typicall, they live in the same town or city as their workplace, or in a nearby suburb town - much like English citizens.

I'm not making an argument - or even offering an opinion - on the fuel cost differences. But the "we have to travel 2000 miles to get to work every day" response that this discussion invariably, repeatedly, and automatically gives rise to is a fallacy. I've seen it on every messagebaord I've ever visited. It comes up on FARK once every couple of weeks, it has been repeated to be ad nauseum by friends in the US. It's usually supported by anecdotal evidence form a couple of people who maintain that they have to travel a long distance, and therefore everyone does. Sure, there are exceptions. They'll no doubt pop up anecdotally in this thread. But, on average, it's the same. For example, there are a LOT of people in New York, Chicago, etc., who travel less than 3 miles to go to work. If that.

It's not actually true.

The daily distances are the same. The fuel price differences exist, but have nothing to do with that.

A corollary to this that I have heard from many of my European friends (and when I lived in Europe) is how American's never see how other countries live. For example, it's quite common for folks in Europe to go all over Europe visiting other countries on vacation, etc. Of course, we do essentially the exact same thing, we just call it visiting Oklahoma... or Tennessee... or Florida... etc. Well, maybe no one <in their right mind> visits Oklahoma <g> but you get my point.

Sorry for the hijack, but your post brought those discussions to mind.

 

[Morrus]

A corollary to this that I have heard from many of my European friends (and when I lived in Europe) is how American's never see how other countries live. For example, it's quite common for folks in Europe to go all over Europe visiting other countries on vacation, etc. Of course, we do essentially the exact same thing, we just call it visiting Oklahoma... or Tennessee... or Florida... etc. Well, maybe no one <in their right mind> visits Oklahoma <g> but you get my point.

Well, yeah, Atlantic Ocean. It's not cheap to cross it. Roughly similar numbers of Americans and Europeans cross it every year (including Canadians, but not South Americans). That's more a testament to similarity than a difference.

Visiting Oklahoma doesn't actually necessitate nother language, though! I was in Italy this year; I've been to the US twice. There are more differences between Italy and the UK than between the US and the UK.

Visiting Italy I felt I was in a foreign country; in the US, I didn't, really. Some small cosmetic differences, but that was about it.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Something that gets a lot of play on the internet every time this discussion comes up. It's a nice soundbyte, but it has no practical effect on the average person's life.

Depends on just how average the average person is, studies often create a false average as a result of mixing seperated demographics that should have been examined separately

The average US citizens drives 29 miles per day, accoridng to the US Dept. of Transport. The average English citizen travels 26 miles per day, according to the UK DMV. The distances are roughly similar.

The figures are skewed as a result of the way they mixed very different demographics. Essentially they create a false picture when they average together very different populations. There are essentially two different Americas, urban and rural America. Urban America has a very large population and when included into an overall average absorbs significant portions of the rural figure creating an artificially deflated per-capita figure.

Yes, the US is much larger. No, US citizens do not travel across it to go to work. typicall, they live in the same town or city as their workplace, or in a nearby suburb town - much like English citizens.
I'm not making an argument - or even offering an opinion - on the fuel cost differences. But the "we have to travel 2000 miles to get to work every day" response that this discussion invariably, repeatedly, and automatically gives rise to is a fallacy. I've seen it on every messagebaord I've ever visited. It comes up on FARK once every couple of weeks, it has been repeated to be ad nauseum by friends in the US. It's usually supported by anecdotal evidence form a couple of people who maintain that they have to travel a long distance, and therefore everyone does. Sure, there are exceptions. They'll no doubt pop up anecdotally in this thread. But, on average, it's the same. For example, there are a LOT of people in New York, Chicago, etc., who travel less than 3 miles to go to work. If that.

This is an exaggeration from both sides. The key is mixing a pair of very different demographics has produced an eroneous result. Urban America has the majority of the population but it's also a comparatively small portion of the land mass of America. So you have the huge population of a small region overshadowing the smaller population which makes up the vast majority of the land area. Outside those metropolitan areas driving 30 to 40 miles each way to work is common, with an hour or so to any nearby city large enough to have movies, malls, etc. And in the rural areas there's no alternative to driving those distances, and the source of the conflict over these things. One part is so divorced from the other they don't realize what things are like there.

 

[kenobi65]

Yep. Where I'm from (Western Kentucky) the only form of public transit was the school bus. We lived about three miles from the nearest town (of about 2000 people) and grocery, 15 miles from the county seat (3000 people) and the Wal-Mart, 45 minutes to the nearest movie theater, and an hour to the nearest mall and airport.

Fair enough, though most Americans don't live in rural areas like that anymore...but, for those who do, the distances they have to travel are often large, and public transportation is often limited or non-existant.

 

[Bullgrit]

The average US citizens drives 29 miles per day, accoridng to the US Dept. of Transport. The average English citizen travels 26 miles per day, according to the UK DMV. The distances are roughly similar.

The average life span for an America is 77.9 years and for a Brit is 78.8 years [from a quick Web search]. The ages are roughly similar.

Does that mean that the average American and Brit has the same concept of 200 years of history? Some Brits live in small towns that are older than the United States. Some drive by castles older than the American Colonies. Such situations do affect how the average citizen conceives of history.

But the "we have to travel 2000 miles to get to work every day" response that this discussion invariably, repeatedly, and automatically gives rise to is a fallacy.

No one has said what you put in quotes above. No one has even suggested it.

It's usually supported by anecdotal evidence form a couple of people who maintain that they have to travel a long distance, and therefore everyone does.

No one has said or suggested this either. You are preemptively counter-arguing? If so, I'll support your assertion that such statements would, indeed, be a fallacy.


Just as the age of one's country affects/skews one's perception of historical time, the size of one's country also affects/skews one's perception of geographical distance.

But having this argument not only diverges from the topic of the thread, it also gives more importance to a light-hearted comment made in jest than it deserves. The statement was not a defining fact, but rather just a fun comparison for entertainment purposes. Please don't give it more weight that it was intended to have.

Bullgrit

Total Bullgrit

 

[prospero63]

Fair enough, though most Americans don't live in rural areas like that anymore...but, for those who do, the distances they have to travel are often large, and public transportation is often limited or non-existant.

Actually, I think you would be surprised at home many do. I believe, but don't have time to research, that in fact most do still live in "rural" areas like that.

 

[jgbrowning]

According to the US 2000 census 79.219 of USAers live in Urban Clusters of 2,500 or more. 68.274 live in urban clusters of 50,000 or more.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census/cps2k.htm

Still, around 59 million USAers live in rural areas. The current population of the UK is roughly 60 million ( http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=6 ) from what I can gather.

joe b.