D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Boots of springing and striding.

[coyote6]

First, the competence bonus to Jump: 2500.

What are the new skill bonus costs -- bonus^2 * 100 gp? That would be 5 times the old costs; my gut reaction is that it's too expensive for many skills.

I think the skill bonus costs ought to be broke down by skill; for some skills (Swim, Jump), bonuses just aren't that game breaking. But bonuses to other skills (Use Magic Device) can be abusive quite easily (even, I imagine, at the new prices); still other skills (Hide, Move Silently) fall somewhere in the middle.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

What are the new skill bonus costs -- bonus^2 * 100 gp? That would be 5 times the old costs; my gut reaction is that it's too expensive for many skills.

I think the skill bonus costs ought to be broke down by skill; for some skills (Swim, Jump), bonuses just aren't that game breaking. But bonuses to other skills (Use Magic Device) can be abusive quite easily (even, I imagine, at the new prices); still other skills (Hide, Move Silently) fall somewhere in the middle.

I was thinking the same thing.

By the way what's the cost on boots of flying in 3.5 and how long do they last. I mean to you really want to pay 10,000 for +10 to jump if you can fly 20minutes + a day for 20,000?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

That gives us 4500. If the more expensive part was doubled, then it would be 7000. If the less expensive part was doubled, it'd be 6000. So either way, the boots are a bargain.

No, they're not. A bargain is a good deal. Getting +10' movement for 5500gp is not a good deal. And the bonus to Jump is laughable. In 3.0, the Ring of Jumping provided a +30 to Jump for 2000gp, and hardly anyone bought one. Now we're supposed to believe that +5 to Jump is worth the same 2000gp? Come now.

Strangely, boots of expeditious retreat are not very expensive, if your DM allows them. They'd be 4000 gp - but since they'd be better all around than the current boots of striding and springing (+30 to move and an effective +12 to jump, as opposed to the BoS&S' +10 and +9, respectively), a DM would have to be pretty foolish to use that price for them.

No more foolish than the designer that thinks the new Boots of S&S are worth 5500gp.

 

[Spatzimaus]

A bargain is a good deal. Getting +10' movement for 5500gp is not a good deal.

For 5500gp, you get the effect of the Speed of Thought feat without it being a magical effect requiring reserve power points, available to all classes. Or, you could think of it as double the effect of that Dash feat.
Considering how much Feat-duplicating items usually cost, this price isn't unreasonable.

As someone who's taken Speed of Thought on multiple characters, I'm happy with this change. In 3E, there were basically two speeds: Normal speed (15'-40') and Ludicrous Speed (60'+). That second group consisted only of Monks, mounted Paladins, and anyone with these boots. Being in that higher group meant the ability to pretty much place yourself anywhere on the board without worrying too much about movement AoOs. Flanking someone became pathetically easy. It took away one of the big advantages of the Monk class, and made that one item practically essential gear no matter what price you set.

Now, you're back to a graduated movement scale. If you want to be fast, you need to take a class with a movement bonus or burn a Feat, and IMO that's how it SHOULD be.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

As someone who's taken Speed of Thought on multiple characters, I'm happy with this change. In 3E, there were basically two speeds: Normal speed (15'-40') and Ludicrous Speed (60'+). That second group consisted only of Monks, mounted Paladins, and anyone with these boots. Being in that higher group meant the ability to pretty much place yourself anywhere on the board without worrying too much about movement AoOs. Flanking someone became pathetically easy. It took away one of the big advantages of the Monk class, and made that one item practically essential gear no matter what price you set.

I can see this. I can see how it'd be a reason to power down the boots...

Now, you're back to a graduated movement scale. If you want to be fast, you need to take a class with a movement bonus or burn a Feat, and IMO that's how it SHOULD be.

...but that doesn't mean they're worth 5500gp. If removing the +30' move was necessary to make the monks and barbarians feel "more special"--fine. Cut the boots down to +10' movement, as they have. But don't expect us to believe that it's worth 5500gp.

 

[coyote6]

I have to agree that they seem overpriced. They give (in effect) +10 ft move and +9 Jump (+5 from skill bonus, +4 from speed increase) for 5500 gp. As was pointed out, boots of expeditious retreat would cost 4000 gp, and would give +30 ft speed and +12 Jump (all from speed). Spending more to get less is not a good deal.

I think 3000-3500 might be a better price for boots of striding and springing.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

And for 2000 gp you can get the effect of weapon focus and half the effect of weapon specialization! (And unlike weapon specialization, you don't need to be a fighter or psychic warrior to use a +1 weapon). If feats should be worth 4000+gp, maybe +1 weapons should cost 8000gp (1.5 feats). And +2 weapons should cost at least 16000gp. (3 feats--weapon focus, GWF, WS--which would ordinarily require 8 fighter levels). Alternately, we could stop pretending that all feats are equal or that all items that duplicate them should have similar cost simply because they "duplicate a feat."

5000gp is too much money for a character to pay for a measly +10 to movement and +5 to jump.

For 5500gp, you get the effect of the Speed of Thought feat without it being a magical effect requiring reserve power points, available to all classes. Or, you could think of it as double the effect of that Dash feat.
Considering how much Feat-duplicating items usually cost, this price isn't unreasonable.

As someone who's taken Speed of Thought on multiple characters, I'm happy with this change. In 3E, there were basically two speeds: Normal speed (15'-40') and Ludicrous Speed (60'+). That second group consisted only of Monks, mounted Paladins, and anyone with these boots. Being in that higher group meant the ability to pretty much place yourself anywhere on the board without worrying too much about movement AoOs. Flanking someone became pathetically easy. It took away one of the big advantages of the Monk class, and made that one item practically essential gear no matter what price you set.

Now, you're back to a graduated movement scale. If you want to be fast, you need to take a class with a movement bonus or burn a Feat, and IMO that's how it SHOULD be.

 

[Pielorinho]

As was pointed out, boots of expeditious retreat would cost 4000 gp, and would give +30 ft speed and +12 Jump (all from speed). Spending more to get less is not a good deal.

Are we sure on this price? I wonder if folks are taking into consideration the short duration of expeditious retreat. In any case, pricing guidelines are just that -- guidelines. The reduction of magical movement enhancers is probably my single favorite change in 3E: it reintroduces the complicated tactics of movement to the game, whereas before nearly everyone in our groups just got fly cast on them at the beginning of the day, zoomed to wherever they wanted, and didn't have to worry much about AoOs or advancing under cover or anything like that.

Daniel

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The way the Jump skill works has changed.

As was pointed out, boots of expeditious retreat would cost 4000 gp, and would give +30 ft speed and +12 Jump (all from speed). Spending more to get less is not a good deal.

I hope this item doesn't exist. I wouldn't give it out for this price.

 

[coyote6]

The way the Jump skill works has changed.

Yes, it has; Olgar & co. have given capsule summaries elsewhere. But AFAIK, a +1 to Jump still effectively nets +1 foot long jump. Is this not true?

(Actually, I'm not sure what your point was, in general; could you elaborate?)

I hope this item doesn't exist. I wouldn't give it out for this price.

It doesn't, AFAIK. But I think it has a more reasonable price than the new boots.