D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Boots of springing and striding.

[James McMurray]

If by "You guys" you mean drnuncheon, then yep, "you guys" are comparing it to wind fan.

I think the comparison does well to illustrate the relative cheapness of the boots. Lets see, for 5500gp I can get either a permanent +10 to speed, or a Gust of wind once per day (multiple uses if I risk destroying the item). Sounds to me like +10 to speed is incredibly over-powered compared to other objects at that price level.

 

[Staffan]

Can you create a system that works to uniformly generate magic item costs in a fair manner for all spells and effects of all levels? I know I sure can't. Until some genius comes along and does it, we'll have to rely on DM intervention to ensure that the system doesn't get abused.

I think Arcana Unearthed is supposed to have a section in each spell description that mentions magic items based on that spell. I don't know how detailed it will be, it might just be a factor to be multiplied into the item price.

 

[drnuncheon]

If by "You guys" you mean drnuncheon, then yep, "you guys" are comparing it to wind fan.

I'm plural?

Sweet.

I love 3.5.



J
...or should that be 'we love 3.5'?

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

My full plate paladin still intends to commision those boots for 5.5k.

I heard that in a session one of my players ran, the whole party bought boots of SS for 6k a piece.

Can you visualise a world, where everyone is moving double speed all the time?

Very lame, very quickly.

 

[hong]

My full plate paladin still intends to commision those boots for 5.5k.

I heard that in a session one of my players ran, the whole party bought boots of SS for 6k a piece.

When they could have been flying at 60' or 90' for 2 hours per day, for spending 12k a piece, it's not exactly broken.

Can you visualise a world, where everyone is moving double speed all the time?

Sure. It'd look a lot like CTHD, Once Upon a Time in China, or any other movie where people are flying or jumping all over the place. D&D for some strange reason uses speed to represent acrobatic ability of this sort; look at the monk.

3E at high levels is very much like wuxia. Even if you don't have boots of S&S, you'll have winged boots and probably an item of teleport. If you're a wizard, you can already cast fly and teleport. These abilities are essential for survival. 3.5E tones it down somewhat (fly got nerfed along with boots of S&S), but the ability to take the fight into 3 dimensions is still an overwhelming advantage. I doubt that the tone of the game is actually going to change that much.

Very lame, very quickly.

You just need to recalibrate your paradigm.

 

[Technik4]

DMG: Minor Wondrous Items

Circlet of Persuasion - 4,500 gp
Slippers of Spider Climb - 4,800 gp
Incense of Meditation - 4,900 gp
Bag of Holding II - 5,000 gp
Bracers of Archery, Lesser - 5,000 gp
Ioun Stone, Dusty Rose Prism - 5,000 gp
Helm of Comprehend Languages and Read Magic - 5,200 gp
Vest of Escape - 5,200 gp
Eversmoking Bottle - 5,400 gp
Necklace of Fireballs IV - 5,400 gp
Boots of Striding and Springing - 5,500 gp
Wind Fan - 5,500 gp
Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 - 6,000 gp
Horeshoes of Zephyr - 6,000 gp
Pipes of Haunting - 6,000 gp
Necklace of Fireballs V - 6,150 gp
Gloves of Swimming and Climbing - 6,250 gp
Bag of Tricks, Tan - 6,300 gp
Circlet of Blasting, Minor - 6,480

This is a cut-out of all the wondrous items for 4,500-6,500 gp from DMG 3.5. A couple highlights for things in this range to improve your combat skills:

+2 to any stat (actually only 4,000 gp)
+1 comp to Archery Attack Rolls
+1 to AC
+1 to Fist Attack and Damage Rolls

Its also good for some magical attacks like:

-1 8d6 fireball, 2 6d6 fireballs, 2 4d6 fireballs, 4 2d6 fireballs
-3d8 ranged touch attack 1/day
-the weak equivelant to Summon Nature's Ally IV 10/week
-Gust of Wind 2/day

And of course utility effects:

- +3 to Charisma Checks
- Continuous Comprehend Languages and Read Magic w/ +5 to Decipher Script
- +5 to Swim and +5 to Climb
- +4 to Open Locks and +6 to Escape Artist

And some mobility effects:
-Spider Climb 10 min/day
-+10 enhancement to Speed and +5 Jump (though speed enhancement turns it to +9 total jump bonus)
-Ability for mounts to cross water or other horizontal surfaces without touching them

Taking that all in stride you could also afford a suit of Adamantine Light Armor, an Adamantine Weapon +1, a suit of Mithral Medium Armor +1, or a double-headed weapon with +1 on either side.

With that in mind, assuming your armor and weapons are covered, the boots are still an awesome buy. They provide a continuous bonus in addition to a large skill bonus. Compare it to a +1 Insight bonus to AC and I think you'll say youd rather have +10 speed (even without the jump bonus). Comparing to 3.5 is nice, but honestly crochety DM that I was I charged 20k for boots of springing and striding (probably on the high side, but I didn't like them. Also, they stacked with flying speeds, so it was useful to have them with the ability to fly).

And finally, I would have no problem with a character wanting to make "Boots of Springing" which provide +10 enhancement to land speed. The cost would be 2,500 gp, IMC.

Technik

 

[coyote6]

Only because you're used to the old, too-good version, I think. Really, 5500 is not that much. It's still solidly in the arena of minor magic items. Look at the other ones around that level - wind fan? Murlynd's spoon? I think the boots beat those out rather soundly.

Is that because the boots are correctly priced, or because those are also overpriced?

If a possible sign of something being "too good" is "everyone takes it"*, is "nobody takes it" equivalently a possible sign of "not good enough"? Nobody in any campaign I've been in ever wanted a wind fan or spoon; one group I GM for found a spoon, and they've barely used it, except as a source of jokes (the half-orc likes the taste of the gruel -- he has a ring of sustenance, though, so doesn't need the spoon).

It's cheaper and more functional to get a ring of sustenance or a travel cloak; or a bag of holding, handy haversack, or the like, and buy lots of food; and/or rely on a cleric to occasionally toss off a create food and water, and follow it with purify food and drink.

Obviously, something is out of whack. But you can't push the price on all useful magic items up and up; if you did, what would be the point of having them?

*Note that "everyone takes it" can't be a necessary and sufficient condition for something to be "too good"; there are somethings that everyone will want, no matter what the cost. That doesn't mean that a high cost is correct for those items.

 

[coyote6]

Speaking of overpriced -- the new slippers of spider climbing.

Let's see, by the guidelines -- 2nd level spell, caster level 4; 2*4*2000=16k. Once per day cuts that to 3.2k. The listed price is 4800 gp, 1.5x more -- but the duration is 10 minutes, which is caster level 1. Granted, that duration can be split up -- but the 4800 gp buys 1/4th the duration for 1.5 times the price, an effective sixfold increase in the price. That's too much, unless maybe you use the slippers solely in combat (and IME, people don't; spider climb is a useful noncombat ability, and noncombat use is time consuming; that 10 minute duration will vanish just trying to pull a Spider-Man and follow some villains).

(Technically, they aren't use activated, so it should be *1800, not *2000. But hey, it's only 10%.)

Spider climbing is not that useful; it's useful, but not that useful. IMO, anyways.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

*Note that "everyone takes it" can't be a necessary and sufficient condition for something to be "too good"; there are somethings that everyone will want, no matter what the cost. That doesn't mean that a high cost is correct for those items.

Hel-lo, Cloak of Resistance!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hel-lo, Cloak of Resistance!

Bah. Cloak of Resistance isn't a must-have.

Well over half of my characters have Vests of Resistance instead.

-Hyp.