D&D 3.x 3.5 Darkness Spell - Otherwise known as "Huh?"

[coyote6]

All I've found for game designer comment about that issue is here...

Hey, somebody should put that in a FAQ.

 

[John Crichton]

After much deliberation, I'm just sticking with the 3e version. If the group finds a problem with it then I'll make a judgement call then.

I do have to say that I don't hate the 3.5 version. It just doesn't jive with the Forgotten Realms. Oh well. *shrugs*

 

[Bauglir]

Well, apparantly contrary to popular opinion, I actually like the 3.5 change to darkness. I found the 3.0 version too all or nothing. With no save and no spell resistance your entire party could be effectively crippled (depending on how your DM handles disorientation caused by the darkness) by a second level spell, which could even be precast and used in combat as a free action (open fist containing precast darkness stone, and drop it)..

This was made particularly bad when dealing with a foe that had some ability to see or at least sense their surroundings while in darkness (eg Scent, Blindsight, the ability of some fiends to see in magical darkness). The advantage was far too great for such a low level spell.

IMO if you want to keep the old effect of darkness you should be boosting it to somewhere around 6th level rather than 3rd, or giving anyone who enters the darkness a will save to reduce the effect to 'shadowy illumination' rather than complete darkness..

YMMV

 

[John Crichton]

Well, apparantly contrary to popular opinion, I actually like the 3.5 change to darkness. I found the 3.0 version too all or nothing. With no save and no spell resistance your entire party could be effectively crippled (depending on how your DM handles disorientation caused by the darkness) by a second level spell, which could even be precast and used in combat as a free action (open fist containing precast darkness stone, and drop it)..

This was made particularly bad when dealing with a foe that had some ability to see or at least sense their surroundings while in darkness (eg Scent, Blindsight, the ability of some fiends to see in magical darkness). The advantage was far too great for such a low level spell.

IMO if you want to keep the old effect of darkness you should be boosting it to somewhere around 6th level rather than 3rd, or giving anyone who enters the darkness a will save to reduce the effect to 'shadowy illumination' rather than complete darkness..

YMMV

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't mind the change. It makes sense for clearing up combat and the like. However, it doesn't jive at all with the way it has been used in my campaign world for years (been DMing FR since the start of 2e). When I homebrew again (or maybe when/if some crazy event changes the whole campaign world later down the line), the 3.5 version will be the one I use. But for now this is a necessary evil.

 

[jgsugden]

I've read this several times, but never seen an actual quote from a designer (not even from a personal email, let alone a link to an actual post or FAQ or the like). I don't suppose you have a link to the source of this, do you? I'd like to see it.

As I said, I do not remember the individual or the location of the comment, but I did mark it down on my list of errors.

I am skeptical when I hear from a second hand source that something in the rules is wrong, so I only put things on my list if I get it first hand. I should probably keep a list of the source of the comment as well ...

If you're as skeptical as I am, you probably won't trust me. OTOH, I'll put my reputation on the line and stand by my report: I'm sure I 'heard' this from a designer ... I just do not remember where or when.

 

[DrSpunj]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't mind the change. It makes sense for clearing up combat and the like. However, it doesn't jive at all with the way it has been used in my campaign world for years (been DMing FR since the start of 2e). When I homebrew again (or maybe when/if some crazy event changes the whole campaign world later down the line), the 3.5 version will be the one I use. But for now this is a necessary evil.

I'm not at home right now (visiting the in-laws for the holidays) but I was just recently reading the FR Underdark book and I believe that's where I saw something that addressed this specific issue.

I think the spell is called "Veil of Darkness" and I'm pretty sure there was a side bar or some kind of extra note on the page that said "Feel free to substitute a Drow's innate ability to create darkness with this spell, as it's more in-line with what we all expect from them."

I'm heading home tomorrow and I'll try to find it and type it up for you if no one else beats me to it by then.

Sorry I can't be more helpful now.

Thanks.

Drspunj

 

[John Crichton]

I'm not at home right now (visiting the in-laws for the holidays) but I was just recently reading the FR Underdark book and I believe that's where I saw something that addressed this specific issue.

I think the spell is called "Veil of Darkness" and I'm pretty sure there was a side bar or some kind of extra note on the page that said "Feel free to substitute a Drow's innate ability to create darkness with this spell, as it's more in-line with what we all expect from them."

I'm heading home tomorrow and I'll try to find it and type it up for you if no one else beats me to it by then.

Thanks for the tip.

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find any reference to that spell in Underdark. I checked Races of Faerun as well. If that is somewhere in a Realms supplement, that would be great. I'll be thrilled if it has been addressed...

If you do find it, just give a page number if you don't feel like typing it all up.

 

[Gez]

Searching my monstruous XML spell database, I've found a veil of darkness spell from Arcana Unearthed.

But I haven't yet seen the spells from Underdark.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

This is funny to me. A rogue's primary attack form is useless unless he uses it in broad daylight!

This and the redundancy between the Blind Fight feat and Uncanny Dodge have got me strongly considering giving Blind Fight a 'boost' for rogues.

I'm not certain, but I think I might allow sneak attacks if you don't use blind-fight or if both concealment rolls come up successful. Haven't decided which yet. I need to decide how many d6's I want to see.

Something about not wanting to knife somebody in the dark alley rubs me wrong. It doesn't help that Blind-Fight, a very rogue-y feeling feat, is very poor value for most rogues.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

However, it doesn't jive at all with the way it has been used in my campaign world for years

JFTR, it's "jibe."

jibe -- informal; To be in accord; agree. Your figures jibe with mine.

Carry on.