D&D 3.x 3.5 Darkness Spell - Otherwise known as "Huh?"

The reference for recommending drow use Veil of Shadow is from the Complete Miniatures Handbook.
here's the spell:

Veil of Shadow
Evocation[Darkness]
Asn1, Blk2, Clr2, Sor/Wiz2
Comp: V,S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min/level
Swirling wisps of darkness obscure you, granting you concealment. The 20% miss chance is active even if the attacker has darkvision.
This spell effect is suppressed in daylight or in the area of a light spell of 3rd level or higher.
See invisibility does not counter the Veil of Shadow's concealment effect, but a True Seeing spell does.
 

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Doh!

Feanor Starym said:
The reference for recommending drow use Veil of Shadow is from the Complete Miniatures Handbook.

Thanks Feanor!

It's on page 40 of the MHB, and sorry to point you in the wrong direction, JC. Happily I've received a small pile of new D&D material for the holidays and *thought* that particular piece was in Underdark (maybe just because it would make sense for it to be in there) but couldn't find it myself when I looked back for it.

Actually rereading it now I'm afraid my memory of the spell is quite a bit more impressive than the spell itself. Sorry to get your hopes up for nothing, JC. :(

DrSpunj
 

Darkness

[SRD]
Darkness
Evocation [Darkness]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Object touched
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness.
Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.

If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Arcane Material Component: A bit of bat fur and either a drop of pitch or a piece of coal.[/SRD]

[MY COMMENTS]The confusion comes from the use of the word illumination and the following SRD environmental entry about darkness. The real question is does the darkness spell (2nd level) replicate the darkness environmental effect? My take on it is no. The spell stipulates the effect as a lessening of light, not a complete absense of it. I would go with the spells effects only and not the environmental effects of absolute darkness.

I don't have a problem with this spell replicating the effect of the drow darkness or the old 3.0 spell. The spells actual effect is that of reducing visibility thereby increasing the chance of missing your opponent. It's now secondary use of illuminating total darkness is up for debate and in my game has just been written off as to be absurd.

Later,

Natural Twenty [/MY COMMENTS]

[SRD]DARKNESS
Darkvision allows many characters and monsters to see perfectly well without any light at all, but characters with normal vision (or low-light vision, for that matter) can be rendered completely blind by putting out the lights. Torches or lanterns can be blown out by sudden gusts of subterranean wind, magical light sources can be dispelled or countered, or magical traps might create fields of impenetrable darkness.

In many cases, some characters or monsters might be able to see, while others are blinded. For purposes of the following points, a blinded creature is one who simply can’t see through the surrounding darkness.

—Creatures blinded by darkness lose the ability to deal extra damage due to precision (for example, a ranger’s favored enemy or a sneak attack).

—Blinded creatures are hampered in their movement, and pay 2 squares of movement per square moved into (double normal cost). Blinded creatures can’t run or charge.

—All opponents have total concealment from a blinded creature, so the blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat. A blinded creature must first pinpoint the location of an opponent in order to attack the right square; if the blinded creature launches an attack without pinpointing its foe, it attacks a random square within its reach. For ranged attacks or spells against a foe whose location is not pinpointed, roll to determine which adjacent square the blinded creature is facing; its attack is directed at the closest target that lies in that direction.

—A blinded creature loses its Dexterity adjustment to AC and takes a –2 penalty to AC.

—A blinded creature takes a –4 penalty on Search checks and most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks, including any with an armor check penalty. A creature blinded by darkness automatically fails any skill check relying on vision.

—Creatures blinded by darkness cannot use gaze attacks and are immune to gaze attacks.
A creature blinded by darkness can make a Listen check as a free action each round in order to locate foes (DC equal to opponents’ Move Silently checks). A successful check lets a blinded character hear an unseen creature “over there somewhere.” It’s almost impossible to pinpoint the location of an unseen creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 reveals the unseen creature’s square (but the unseen creature still has total concealment from the blinded creature).

—A blinded creature can grope about to find unseen creatures. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent squares using a standard action. If an unseen target is in the designated square, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has pinpointed the unseen creature’s current location. (If the unseen creature moves, its location is once again unknown.)

—If a blinded creature is struck by an unseen foe, the blinded character pinpoints the location of the creature that struck him (until the unseen creature moves, of course). The only exception is if the unseen creature has a reach greater than 5 feet (in which case the blinded character knows the location of the unseen opponent, but has not pinpointed him) or uses a ranged attack (in which case, the blinded character knows the general direction of the foe, but not his location).

—A creature with the scent ability automatically pinpoints unseen creatures within 5 feet of its location. [/SRD]
 
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DrSpunj said:
Thanks Feanor!

It's on page 40 of the MHB, and sorry to point you in the wrong direction, JC. Happily I've received a small pile of new D&D material for the holidays and *thought* that particular piece was in Underdark (maybe just because it would make sense for it to be in there) but couldn't find it myself when I looked back for it.

Actually rereading it now I'm afraid my memory of the spell is quite a bit more impressive than the spell itself. Sorry to get your hopes up for nothing, JC. :(

DrSpunj
It's all good. That's the one book I didn't check. Was beginning to think I'd been had. Thanks for trying anyway. :)
 

Simplicity said:
Well, a wand of fireballs, a wand of reduce person, and a bag of holding
would be all you need to make a fridge that works like a normal fridge does...

Step 1: Shoot a nearby kender with your wand of fireballs.
Step 2: Reduce the kender corpse while it is still heated. Compression increases the heat of the kender.
Step 3: Wait for the kender to cool to room temperature.
Step 4: Dismiss the reduce person spell. Uncompression decreases the kender's
heat.
Step 5: Dump your chilled kender corpse into the bag of holding and seal it off
to keep your perishables extra-fresh!

Keep your perishables fresh using your perished. I can't wait till the red wizards start to advertise that :D

John Crichton said:
After much deliberation, I'm just sticking with the 3e version. If the group finds a problem with it then I'll make a judgement call then.

I do have to say that I don't hate the 3.5 version. It just doesn't jive with the Forgotten Realms. Oh well. *shrugs*

So you made it the way I'd have suggested: If the change significantly changes the campaign and makes stuff you have been using all the time useless, just skip the change until your next campaign. This doesn't apply to the real broken stuff (so if the party depended 3.0 harm to the exclusion of every other spell, he's up for a surprise).
I had the problem with Alter Self, which now doesn't change clothing (afaik). That would really have messed up my fey'ri spy, who used his alternate form all the time.
 

KaeYoss said:
So you made it the way I'd have suggested: If the change significantly changes the campaign and makes stuff you have been using all the time useless, just skip the change until your next campaign. This doesn't apply to the real broken stuff (so if the party depended 3.0 harm to the exclusion of every other spell, he's up for a surprise).
I had the problem with Alter Self, which now doesn't change clothing (afaik). That would really have messed up my fey'ri spy, who used his alternate form all the time.
I know others did the same but it is good to hear that others have been doing the same thing with bits and pieces of 3.5.

One group that I am playing in switched straight to 3.5 and it has worked out well. One PC relied heavily on the 3e buffs (cleric) but he just made another character and life goes on.
 

John Crichton said:
One group that I am playing in switched straight to 3.5 and it has worked out well. One PC relied heavily on the 3e buffs (cleric) but he just made another character and life goes on.

My cleric also relied on a lot of things that have been fixed, but it was not so bad (I must confess that some of those things are too good to be true). So even though I don't use an extended endurance spell to make me more resilient all day, and even though my armor isn't +5 anymore (cause of the changes to magic weapon/vestment), the character himself is still good enough (At first, I used Persistant Spell, but I have abandoned it - it really made made that cleric too powerful. I seemlessly changed to Quicken Spell to buff me up quicker and all's well. That was way before 3.5, though).
 

How unbalancing would it be, if in areas of medium concealment (20% miss chance), the concealment didn't apply to squares immediately adjacent to the character? Reach weapons and ranged weapons would still be affected, but melee attacks would not be. I'm thinking of implementing this as a house rule to combat the fact that rogues can't sneak attack people in dark alleys, or from the shadows, etc.

Just seems to me that rogues, assassins and shadowdancers shouldn't be more effective outside their natural environment.

Greyline
 
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Greyline said:
Just seems to me that rogues, assassins and shadowdancers shouldn't be more effective outside their natural environment.
Well, attacks that you use to cripple someone that rely on seeing critical points on the body should need just that: the ability to see said body parts. Remember this is only foiled in magical darkness. Most shadowdancers will have darkvision (2nd level ability) and any thief or assassin worth his salt should have some way to see in the dark to take advantage of sneak attacks.

It wouldn't throw things totally out of whack but it does give an edge to those classes and PrCs that the rules already account for.
 

Just remembered another issue with the "old" form of darkness - what if someone cast illusory darkness? he knows its an illusion and can see through it, but any foes who don't spot the illusion are blinded (I've heard of it used that way, even if I don't particularly agree with it myself!)
 

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