D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Eldritch knight abilities?

[LokiDR]

Sure. I'm being stubborn. I don't have a problem with anyone being stubborn -- and "pig-headed," if you wish.

Just so long as we agree we are both being stubborn.

As the moderators asked (and I didn't notice the first time through) that we tone down the rhetoric, I will not further comment on my opinion as to your motivations. However, no, I was not insulted by anything you've said.

Good, because none was intended.

An unpublished class. This is the kind of question that you really need to ask yourself, though -- I can't tell you what you're going to get out of arguing on the internet.

It fills my day and gives me the occasional chuckle. That is all that matters.

I understand why you don't like EK. I don't really care whether you like EK.

I do feel that your reasons for not liking the EK do not constitute a valid criticism of the class.

This is a point worth debating.

1) Different design than past "multiclassing options" such as the Arcane Trickster.
2) Doesn't do enough to make fighter wizard a reality. You get BAB, martial weapon prof, and some few fighter feats. You have little ability to act like a fighter wading into melee
3) Has no "flavor" for any setting. There is no swapping out of abilities that fit my campaign.
4) Overlap. This isn't a PrC but a rules patch, as we discussed a while back. I think fighter/mages should take work to develop and, therefore, should get something more out of it. This is a multiclass mage/fighter/warrior with a negative ECL. Either make it a PrC (ala arcane trickster) or give it some other name.

 

[Kevin O'Reilly]

The real issue

EK (and MT) is a fix for a fix for something that is very broken in D+D: Magic.

Consider, all classes get BAB, all get feats, all get skills. Sure, certain feats have class restrictions (actually contrary to the feat concept in 3e), but in general ever class can do everything, except magic.

Of course, lots of people have pointed this out as proposed spellcaster level = spellcaster + 1/2 non-spellcaster. Of course, this suggests that a 10th level caster has the untapped ability of a 5th level Wizard. This of course tries to echo the Wizard is half as good a fighter as the fighter, ergo ...

What's my point? Well 3.xxxx prohibits any mechanic that fixes the problem. It can't; the system is the problem. The solution, and one that will likely appear in 4.0 is that all casters have inherent spellcasting, and through feats and skills they unlock the potential.

The above is equally true of psionics .

OK, all that said a solution that requires a rethink of the concept of skills and feats in its application to magic.

In that vain I've posted a thread on new magic in 3.x over in the House Rules

 

[Lodow MoBo]

It is insane to think fighter/wiz multi sucks

I currently have a 13th lvl character that in general rocks in combat.

4 fighter
6 wizard
3 spellsword

17str
14dex
16con
16int
8wis
8chr

It is very common for me to have a 33 - 36 ac. I fly to the enemy blinking hasted improved invis, buffed in str, dex, con. In my mithral BP I have a 15% arcane failure. My glove of storing safly stores my large shield when casting. I spent some nice cross class points into tumble. I fight almost as well as the 2 fighters of the group. With an endurance buff my hitpoints reach 117. my total bonus to hit falls around 18.

hmm lets see If I really feel threatened I'll polymorph into a troll pushing my str to 23 really 27 with the str buff. My bab not good enough to hit the dragon. Ill burn some true strikes to get at least one hit a round.

Just last adventure the cleric and barbarian were dying/dead behind a solid fog spell put up by a lich, who was looting their bodies. while the party was tring to get through the fog. I dimension doored behind a pillar. I was lucky the lich was happy with his loot and left allowing me to save the cleric. The dwarf we will miss. All through the combat I was engaged with the enemy. except the empowered cone of cold had me on the retreat for awhile. I had to wait as the rest of the party was burning through a wall of iron.

edit --
I want to point out I have always played with arcane failure with this character. I have never not had a chance of failure . I mentioned the mitheral BP because thats what I'll go back to if I convert to EK. Curently I'm running around in dragon full plate I crafted with a fabricate scoll and my craft skill in a round off 2 huge green dragons, we slew. As boring goes I don't follow. I have more options and capibilites than a straight fighter or mage. I am not a nuker.

I am a fighter with some serious buffs and options.

 

[Ravellion]

What it comes down to for me is that the Eldritch Knight has no more or less flavour than a Fighter/Wizard, but at least an EK is more effective than a Fighter/Wizard (which clearly is too ineffective at pretty much all levels). Hence, the Eldritch Knight achieves what it sets out to achieve.

Rav

 

[hong]

What it comes down to for me is that the Eldritch Knight has no more or less flavour than a Fighter/Wizard, but at least an EK is more effective than a Fighter/Wizard (which clearly is too ineffective at pretty much all levels). Hence, the Eldritch Knight achieves what it sets out to achieve.

Yeah, well, a Yugo also achieves what it sets out to achieve, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna drive one any time soon.

 

[Fenes 2]

I hated multclassing in 2E, especially fighter/wizards. I like the way it was solved in 3.0E. I'll ban the EK, should I convert to 3.5E, ASF or no ASF. Fighter BAB and 9/10 of wizard caster level progression is overpowered imho.

 

[LokiDR]

What it comes down to for me is that the Eldritch Knight has no more or less flavour than a Fighter/Wizard, but at least an EK is more effective than a Fighter/Wizard (which clearly is too ineffective at pretty much all levels). Hence, the Eldritch Knight achieves what it sets out to achieve.

Rav

EK isn't a PrC, and that is what I don't like. It is multiclassing with a negative ECL modifier. If that is what was desired, that is what it should have been.

EK is exactly as something else but faster. Two things should never be the same. That is boring and annoying. Hence, EK needs flavor.

 

[Skaros]

EK isn't a PrC, and that is what I don't like. It is multiclassing with a negative ECL modifier. If that is what was desired, that is what it should have been.

EK is exactly as something else but faster. Two things should never be the same. That is boring and annoying. Hence, EK needs flavor.

Cool, so everyone agrees then. Lets just call EK and MT "Negative ECL Classes" and move on.

Skaros

 

[Tar-Edhel]

What it comes down to for me is that the Eldritch Knight has no more or less flavour than a Fighter/Wizard, but at least an EK is more effective than a Fighter/Wizard (which clearly is too ineffective at pretty much all levels). Hence, the Eldritch Knight achieves what it sets out to achieve.

Amen!

 

[Ravellion]

I hated multclassing in 2E, especially fighter/wizards. I like the way it was solved in 3.0E. I'll ban the EK, should I convert to 3.5E, ASF or no ASF. Fighter BAB and 9/10 of wizard caster level progression is overpowered imho.

It would be if it were a 20 level class. But it is only 10 levels, and you only have a d6 hd during those levels. I think a few posts upward you can see an EK build. There is no way that the EK would be overpowered.

And I'll gladly drive a working Yugo over a Yugo that only drives in its first two gears.

Rav