[3.5] High level damage spells

[Seule]

I've gotten hold of the new PH, and I noted one change that I haven't seen discussion of on these boards: high level damaging spells have been toned down a little. Specifically, Horrid Wilting is now 1d6/level, max 20d6 (a big downgrade, much needed), and Delayed Blast Fireball is also down to d6s. The prime reason to use the DBF now is that it is one of the few spells you can use to attack from a Time Stop because of the delay.
Meteor Swarm is changed somewhat, with a minimum 40 foot spread, instead of the no spread for the 3.0 targeted version. However, if you can pull off 4 ranged touch attacks, your target will be taking 32d6 damage with no saves, and that's worthy of a 9th level spell. I like the change, it makes sense.
Polar ray is a good addition, but not really worth it until you reach epic levels, and can take advantage of the 25d6 cap.

Basically, Delayed Blast Fireball got too much of a nerf, in my opinion. It's 4 levels higher than Fireball, and when you first get it does 3d6 more damage. That's pretty weak. When it was d8s you at least had a reason to cast it before 17th level, where it combos with Time Stop, and is starting to really take advantage of the higher damage cap.

With Haste being fixed, I'm surprised that they also downgraded some of my staple spells (with my 21st level blast mage). Plus, I now have a whole lot of extra d8s that have no use.

Does anyone have comment? I haven't actually played with the revised spells, I'm wondering if anyone else had found them overpowered.

--Seule

 

[Simplicity]

Arggg... I hated the fact that 3e seemed to stick to a max of 1d6/level for the damage spells, and now it's just worse. A THIRD level spell gives you this sort of damage. By eighth level, you should be dishing out MORE than 1d6/level! Especially since, at a higher level, many creatures have (a) spell resistance, (b) elemental damage resistance, (c) evasion or improved evasion, and (d) high reflex saves.

Oooooh, cone of cold. It's like fireball... but it's harder to hit people with and it's cold. Let's add 2 levels!

 

[Someone]

and Delayed Blast Fireball is also down to d6s.

Basically, Delayed Blast Fireball got too much of a nerf, in my opinion. It's 4 levels higher than Fireball, and when you first get it does 3d6 more damage.

Note that Delayed blast fireball was errataed to d6s damage. So no change there.

 

[Staffan]

I am considering making one of these two changes to arcane damage-spells:

1. Heavy arcane damage-dealers (fireball and up) do an additional 1d6/spell level damage. So, a 10th level wizard casting fireball will do 13d6, and a 10th level wizard casting cone of cold will do 15d6. The extra dice are above and beyond the normal dice maximum.

2. 3rd and 4th level damage-dealers do d6es, as now. 5th and 6th level do d8s. 7th and 8th level spells do d10s, and 9th level spells do d12s.

Currently, I'm leaning toward option 1, mainly because it would be a serious pain to roll the 20d12 an archmage would need for his mega-damage spell.

 

[Gellion]

It seems that everybody, including the game designers hates the school of Evocation.

 

[hong]

I just reduce Quicken Spell to using up a spell slot 2 levels higher, and allow sorcs and bards to use it. Makes up for the loss of haste.

 

[ShadowX]

I always thought damage spells scaled horribly, this just makes it worse. Why use horrid wilting when all it does is use a different save and is a higher spell level. It was one of the better necro spells too.

 

[Cedric]

Just one of the many reasons I hate almost all of the magic changes in 3.5

 

[Apok]

I just reduce Quicken Spell to using up a spell slot 2 levels higher, and allow sorcs and bards to use it. Makes up for the loss of haste.

I like this idea.

Overall, I'm not exactly sure why they thought it necessary to tone down the overall damage potential of spells. The Evocation school already took a hit when they boosted the HP of monsters and NPC's and it's not like Wizards are threatening the position of the main-line fighters for the position of Supreme Damage Dealer.

The fact that they changed Haste and clarified Time Stop cuts down on a wizards damage/round potential even more. What was so wrong about an 8th level spell that dealt d8 damage per level?

 

[Dark Magus]

eh, this is kind of on the subject of this, but...

Has anyone also noticed how 3.5 is catered to the Boom Mage and Transmuters? Now the give Necromancy a couple rays and symbol spells, and they think its on par with Evocation? Lay down the crack pipe WotC!!! I don't know exactly what I'd do to fix it, but I think something's seriously wrong with this picture.

Yes, I was pleased to see the Create Undead spells added to the Necromancy list, but that has its limits, being that the Caster has no way to control them.

And don't even get me started on Spell Focus

But I will applaude the new Shocking Grasp.