Henry
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Rasyr said:First off, it tries to make other games sound as if they are "Player vs GM". It also makes it sound like other games do not give players choices. Not to mention the fact that it implies, through the mis-statements about other systems, that DMs in D&D do not (or should not) have any power (or only a limited amount of power) over players, or even the games that they run. It also implies that a GM having "any" sort of power over the players of a game (apparently in regard with player choices) is to be considered a bad thing. Or is he attempting to imply that D&D is for power-gamers cause D&D allows them all the choices they want (as opposed choices available due to setting/game).
Rasyr, it would be a mistake to assume that Mearls agrees with the above point of view, as he notes in his reply, but rather it's what he thinks why more MMORPG players are getting attracted to D&D. And I can totally agree with the statement. From the POV of a solely computer RPG player, it WOULD seem undesirable to have a DM as arbitrary arbiter, rather than a clearly defined massive ruleset, and therefore, giving the players more power through hard rules is why they might find D&D more attractive than other systems.
Firelance said:Good grief, people are talking about the loss of DM power like it's a bad thing. Like I said in der_kluge's epiphany thread:
[snip]
And if the quote from Mike Mearls is correct, fewer players are leaving the game. You might not like the implication that giving the players more power means that more people want to be play the game, but I think almost everyone will agree that having more players around is a good thing.
The problem with the six points you made is that it's fine as long as #4 and #5 actually come true. But what I see happening is that if the DM is not vested with SOME power of arbitration, rather than just being a "glorified computer that sets up the world and lets the players run", then roleplay is de-emphasized, and all you've got is a CRPG on paper, and the type of gaming that I used to do, and have no interest in going back to. I offer Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and Ultima Online as the ultimate examples of what happens when the DM and the social aspects are removed from the equation; in every one of them, play other than power-accumulation is non-existent, and why I quit half of them, and refuse to play in the other half.
Finally, having more players around IS a good thing, but it's a double edged sword, when they have little to no experience with play styles other than the ones mentioned above. It changes the hobby in very significant ways, and while D&D will continue, at that point it's no longer an RPG, it's just a way to play the computer game when your ISP is having problems.
