4e: are character deaths up or down compared 3E?
- Thread starter Emirikol
- Start date
.No deaths in my game so far, but we've had a few times where it came down to one more death save before they bought it (as in I have a 45% chance to die on this roll).
Also, the view might be a little biased based on the fact that KOTS has some crazy hard encounters, so real TPK material in there that I think will skew the results.
Also, the view might be a little biased based on the fact that KOTS has some crazy hard encounters, so real TPK material in there that I think will skew the results.
Far less.
the Jester
Legend
Too early to tell. The party I'm running is now level 1.5- about half are first, and about half have hit 2nd.
No deaths yet, but when I ran KotS I had 2 kills by the end of it.
My gut says, less deaths will occur. But it is NOT impossible to drop pcs; not by any means.
No deaths yet, but when I ran KotS I had 2 kills by the end of it.
My gut says, less deaths will occur. But it is NOT impossible to drop pcs; not by any means.
Lancelot
Adventurer
It's up in my games. I'm DM'ing two campaigns...
In the first campaign, we had 1 character dead in 4 sessions... and then a (4 player) TPK. Goblins accounted for all those losses. No characters dead in the next session, and then another TPK. Deathjump spiders, that time. We've gone one session since then with no losses, but we're playing again tonight...
In my other (weekend) campaign, we've had 3 dead in 5 sessions. One player has lost two of those, despite being (tactically and optimization-wise) the strongest player at the table. Bad luck.
I think it's a combo of players and DM coming to grips with the rules. They've made a few poor decisions (e.g. not knowing when to retreat, or getting separated), and I've made a few poor decisions (e.g. chucking two deathjump spiders at a 1st level party because their total 350XP seemed "reasonable").
I think as we get more familiar with it all, death counts will probably drop back down to 3e levels... and may end up slightly lower due to the reduction of save-or-die effects and massive critical hits.
In the first campaign, we had 1 character dead in 4 sessions... and then a (4 player) TPK. Goblins accounted for all those losses. No characters dead in the next session, and then another TPK. Deathjump spiders, that time. We've gone one session since then with no losses, but we're playing again tonight...
In my other (weekend) campaign, we've had 3 dead in 5 sessions. One player has lost two of those, despite being (tactically and optimization-wise) the strongest player at the table. Bad luck.
I think it's a combo of players and DM coming to grips with the rules. They've made a few poor decisions (e.g. not knowing when to retreat, or getting separated), and I've made a few poor decisions (e.g. chucking two deathjump spiders at a 1st level party because their total 350XP seemed "reasonable").
I think as we get more familiar with it all, death counts will probably drop back down to 3e levels... and may end up slightly lower due to the reduction of save-or-die effects and massive critical hits.
Otterscrubber
First Post
We've had far fewer deaths, but to be totally honest our DM has gone a little soft on us in certain situations where the more role-play oriented members of our group decided on tactics that were not super efficient and would have led to a TPK with a more strict DM. Don't get me wrong, our DM is not a pushover carebear. In fact he takes great joy in making fights difficult for us with traps, odd terrain that favors the enemy in a big way or other tricks in fact. But overall even with that I have to say that we have very few deaths. Often even after a tough fight where several members of the part were near death we are full up again in no time.
Being able to start the next fight in good health with a short rest has helped us to survive where in 3e we'd have had to either sleep or go into the next fight with whatever HP we had left over from the last fight. Also having more HP gives us more room to heal up those who are wounded in a fight before they drop.
Also, being able to move around more in combat has opened up all sorts of interesting ways to change fights. This has allowed us all to get more creative on either staying out of harm's way or helping us to mitigate it to some degree.
Being able to start the next fight in good health with a short rest has helped us to survive where in 3e we'd have had to either sleep or go into the next fight with whatever HP we had left over from the last fight. Also having more HP gives us more room to heal up those who are wounded in a fight before they drop.
Also, being able to move around more in combat has opened up all sorts of interesting ways to change fights. This has allowed us all to get more creative on either staying out of harm's way or helping us to mitigate it to some degree.
Obryn
Hero
I'm running KotS, and as other have mentioned, it can be a meat grinder if you're not careful.
My party would have been TPK'ed (except for one PC) in the Irontooth fight, except I had the bad guys knock 'em out instead of kill them. (Which, IMHO, makes a ton of sense in the overall scheme of the module, especially if you tie in the Blood Reavers.)
As it stands, I've only had one PC death, but largely that's because my players have started really getting into 4e tactics and the help-your-buddy stuff that 4e is made for. Getting a cleric helped a ton; the Warlord was doing okay, but the cleric is just amazingly good at keeping the party going.
-O
My party would have been TPK'ed (except for one PC) in the Irontooth fight, except I had the bad guys knock 'em out instead of kill them. (Which, IMHO, makes a ton of sense in the overall scheme of the module, especially if you tie in the Blood Reavers.)
As it stands, I've only had one PC death, but largely that's because my players have started really getting into 4e tactics and the help-your-buddy stuff that 4e is made for. Getting a cleric helped a ton; the Warlord was doing okay, but the cleric is just amazingly good at keeping the party going.
-O
There are two things that determine whether 4e is more lethal than 3e.
1) Whether the party practices teamwork or not
2) Whether the DM can resist giving you big dramatic battle after big dramatic battle.
I'm currently struggling with 2. I have to keep reminding myself that players need action points and can't fight hard battles after they've blown their dailies.
1) Whether the party practices teamwork or not
2) Whether the DM can resist giving you big dramatic battle after big dramatic battle.
I'm currently struggling with 2. I have to keep reminding myself that players need action points and can't fight hard battles after they've blown their dailies.
Masquerade
First Post
The rarity of character deaths is far more dependent on the GM than the system. So far, I haven't observed a difference between 3e-4e.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
It might be interesting to observe the "kill ratio" over the span of levels, compared between 3E and 4E.
I suspect that 3E lethality at low and high levels might indeed be a little higher, due to the many ways to kill a character in one round (save or die, just too much damage output per round, and so on).
I would expect 4E lethality rate to be mostly constant, while 3E starts high, drops around the "sweet spot", and picks up again once typical enemies have access to save or die spells or 3 melee attacks per round.
I hope some statisticians were keeping notes about this stuff and can compare now.
I suspect that 3E lethality at low and high levels might indeed be a little higher, due to the many ways to kill a character in one round (save or die, just too much damage output per round, and so on).
I would expect 4E lethality rate to be mostly constant, while 3E starts high, drops around the "sweet spot", and picks up again once typical enemies have access to save or die spells or 3 melee attacks per round.
I hope some statisticians were keeping notes about this stuff and can compare now.
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