D&D 4E 4e Constitution - what a waste of time !

[RefinedBean]

I don't like the one-fight-a-day mentality that 4E promotes.

I feel the surge system promotes many encounters per day. My groups average 5-6 encounters per day, with some days having fewer encounters based on story or encounter design (more solos and elites, etc.)

If a group is in trouble with surges and still needs to press on, well, that's how things go. TPKs happen regardless of edition.

 

[HeirToPendragon]

ALL my characters have at least 12 CON at start. I won't suffer any less.

 

[HeirToPendragon]

One person is only a small part of the party. If several, most or all are out of surges, what are you going to do as a DM? Force them to fight and gaurentee a TPK? Of course not, you let they rest or you water down the next fight.

Personally I just let players refresh healing surges after a 5 minute rest, and don't require surges for potions. I don't like the one-fight-a-day mentality that 4E promotes.

Dude, you might be a bad DM.

My players don't run out of surges until, at the very least, the third battle in a day supposing they didn't go against my one "very hard level +3" battle. What are you sending your players into every battle?

If your players are running out of surges after the first fight in a day, either your defender is absolutely terrible at his job, or you are not leveling the fights properly.

 

[Akaiku]

Running out of surges in one fight? You have that many ways to actually USE a surge in a combat? Must be leader heavy. Plus, anyone who gets TPK'd for pressing on when out of surges should have notice that the day stops when you are out. Take your long rest and fix the problems that come up. And really, if you get killed long resting when you are out of surges, just remember that a gm can kill you whenever they want as they have complete control over the world, and also that there is always rule -1 to fall back on. That being, you don't HAVE to play, you can find another group.

 

[Danceofmasks]

That sorta depends on the party, though.
I was in an LFR game recently with 1 defender, 1 wizard, and 3 leaders.
Fighter was down 10 surges after first encounter ..

But that's LFR. You can end up with a crazy team.

I should hope home games don't run that kind of party.

 

[Storminator]

Bah!

Our group always plays one more fight than prudence dictates. My battle cleric has run into half a dozen fights without any surges left... and we're 3rd level.

It isn't 4e that's promoting one fight a day, it's your group.

PS

 

[DracoSuave]

Constitution isn't as strong as it once was.

It is no longer -absolutely necessary.- It is merely -very useful to have-.

In otherwords, exactly where it should be.

 

[Danceofmasks]

There was a reason why con was necessary in 3e.
'cos it was compensating for one of the design flaws in 2e.

Fireball does D6/level ... Magic-users got D4/level for hp ... so boom dead was a problem in 2e.
Con mod per level was in order make per level scaling spells not-so-deadly.

Now that spells don't scale like that anymore, there goes per level con mod.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Con was too important in 3.x. A tenth level Wizard with 10 con had and average of 26.5 hp, one with 20 con had 76.5. That's absurd.

The fact that Con's primary bonus is healing surges means it helps characters who intend to be constantly in combat, while characters who stay at the back don't need it just to survive the area effects which occasionally hit them. It should also be pointed out that all stats have fewer generic effects, not just con, so it tends to even out.

 

[Regicide]

I feel the surge system promotes many encounters per day.

When you're out of surges, the day ends, full stop. Healing potions don't even work, and some magic items won't even activate. How crazy is that? Healing surges put a VERY definite limit on how long a party can go for. There aren't dragon shamans with fast healing for the party, infinite healing feats or disposable wands of cure light wounds.

Add on top of that everyone having a very limited number of dailys and utilities so now every class is equivalent to a low-level vancian spell caster, and things just suck for adventuring without resting.

Toss on to the heap the fact that extended rest gives you an AP and it's foolish for adventurers NOT to do a 1-fight-per-day if they can get away with it.

4E HEAVILY promotes 1-fight-per-day, and surges are an impenetrable barrier that cap a day.