D&D 4E 4e Healing - Is This Right?

[Stalker0]

Ask yourself this: Why six hours? Why not simply say "five minutes after every fight, you're completely healed"?
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Its not just sitting around for 6 hours, its sleeping. We all know that sleep greatly increases your healing rate, so I think that's far more believable than just resting for a few minutes and being back up to full.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Anyone feel any movement at all towards at least understanding the other side, even if you don't subscribe to it?

Honestly, the only thing I don't understand about the other side of the fence -- and you did a great job pointing out the divide -- is why those folks have no problem accepting HP as completely abstract until death, but can't accept the abstraction of some part of HP as injury that simply doesn't impose combat-math penalties.

I mean, they're both abstractions, right? The former also doesn't impose combat-math penalties and I know from real-world experience that being tired and worn down to the point that the next blow will take you down does impose the real-world analog to combat-math penalties.

In the former, you have an abstraction that (1) doesn't impose combat-math penalties, and (2) does not and cannot mechanically model long-term injury. In the latter, you have an abstraction that doesn't impose combat-math penalties.

So as far as I can tell, accepting the latter as the model is objectively less of a stretch.

(I also don't understand how the binary state of "perfectly fine" and "dead" doesn't bother people, but I can certainly just shrug and accept it.)

 

[LostSoul]

Can someone house-rule it? Of course. There've been several good suggestions. But the fact that something as basic to combat as "an injury that lasts longer than six hours" has to be wholesale added to the game ... that's a weakness in the game.

You make a convincing argument. Lemme think for a minute.

What would the effect on game play be if there was some kind of long-term injury mechanic? Since 4e is not a simulationist's paradise, I think that's the first thing that needs to be considered. Maybe long-term injury rules the designers came up with messed up the game and were better left out. I can see that.

Let's say you need to heal up. That means you can't adventure. Adventure is why we're playing. So why are we putting in a rule that says you can't do what you came out for? That seems like a bigger weakness.

If you came out to kick the scenery and see how well it holds up... yeah, it's a weakness. One of many.

If you could make a rule to satisfy both groups of people's goals... well, I'm not sure that's a good idea - and a different topic.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Let's say you need to heal up. That means you can't adventure. Adventure is why we're playing. So why are we putting in a rule that says you can't do what you came out for? That seems like a bigger weakness.

See, I get this. I really, truly do. All I'm asking is that they throw the Verisimilitude Dog a bone.

Maybe every PC hosts the vestige of an ancient hero that provides supernaturally fast healing? Great! Maybe any PC that is crazy enough to adventure without the (extremely rare) trait of regeneration is slaughtered before he makes it anywhere close to 1st level? Great! I can probably think of 10 more explanations of various satisfaction levels in three minutes. And were they offered as an in-game explanation for the 6HM, I wouldn't be in this argument.

But they offer (as far as we know) absolutely nothing. Just "oh, sure, you were a hair away from death six hours ago, but now you're dandy!" That's not throwing a bone, except in the sense that we don't need to mention in front of Eric's grandma.

 

[mach1.9pants]

(I also don't understand how the binary state of "perfectly fine" and "dead" doesn't bother people, but I can certainly just shrug and accept it.)

And with your next post, I totally get your point of view. I can understand (as a reformed simulationist) how it bothers you.
But can you understand that I can shrug and accept the binary state of '100% combat effective' and 'unconcious/dead' means I have no problems to shrug and accept the binary state of 'perfectly fine' and 'dead'?

 

[Grog]

That's simply incorrect.

In 1E and 2E, after a tough fight (and absent healing magic) it could take weeks to be back to full strength. In 3E that was significantly shortened to days. If heroes aren't "recovering from wounds" during that time, following a fight with a dragon or whatever, what were they doing? And why was it called "healing"? And if heroes are "never injured" in earlier D&D, then how is "injury poison" introduced?

And in 1E and 2E, how is it that a character with 1 hit point left out of 100 can spend entire days performing the most strenuous physical tasks with no impairment whatsoever to his ability to perform those tasks?

The only answer that makes any sense is that he's not really injured. Hit points are an abstraction, and they've always been an abstraction. 4E is no different from any previous edition of D&D in that regard.

 

[RigaMortus2]

See, I get this. I really, truly do. All I'm asking is that they throw the Verisimilitude Dog a bone.

Maybe every PC hosts the vestige of an ancient hero that provides supernaturally fast healing? Great! Maybe any PC that is crazy enough to adventure without the (extremely rare) trait of regeneration is slaughtered before he makes it anywhere close to 1st level? Great! I can probably think of 10 more explanations of various satisfaction levels in three minutes. And were they offered as an in-game explanation for the 6HM, I wouldn't be in this argument.

But they offer (as far as we know) absolutely nothing. Just "oh, sure, you were a hair away from death six hours ago, but now you're dandy!" That's not throwing a bone, except in the sense that we don't need to mention in front of Eric's grandma.

How about... It's D&D. It's a fantasy world. That's just how it works? No reason to ask "why" because that's just the physics of the (4E) D&D universe...

In the Real World, it doesn't make sense. We mere mortals can't fathom how a person who was greviously injured is suddenly back to full health with just 6 hours sleep. Just as Grubtar, the 1st level Dragonborn Warlock can't understand why it takes Billy 5th grade student of Earth 4 - 6 weeks to recover from a mere broken arm after falling just 15 feet out of a tree.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

And in 1E and 2E, how is it that a character with 1 hit point left out of 100 can spend entire days performing the most strenuous physical tasks with no impairment whatsoever to his ability to perform those tasks?

Because he's a hero. Everybody knows heroes don't like to let on that they're hurt. And because it's an abstraction. (Why is it you're adamant about some forms of HP abstraction, but blind to this one?)

The only answer that makes any sense is that he's not really injured.

Fraid not. I just offered one. And mine doesn't ignore the "well, what is he doing for two weeks, if not healing" elephant in the room.

Hit points are an abstraction, and they've always been an abstraction. 4E is no different from any previous edition of D&D in that regard.

You keep putting these two statements together as if you believe they're a logical construction; a compound premise leading to an inevitable conclusion. They're not, and they don't. It is, in fact, the case that (1) "[h]it points are an abstraction, and they've always been an abstraction" and (2) 4E is a different abstraction, in that in earlier editions it was possible to be "hurt" for days or weeks, and in 4E, that's apparently not possible, at least unless there's a rule we don't know about or unless it's house-ruled.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

It strains my suspension of disbelief.

1) "Sorry to hear you fell out of a 4th story window Mr. Aragorn. Take 2 of these and call me in the morning. Actually, you won't need to take 2 of anything or call me ..."

2) Why would anyone take up the profession of physician?

hp never never were a good representation or simulation of long term damage to separate definitely them from long term damage is a big improvement

you can add (if they are not there) any number of mechanics for long term damage that don't use hp

this is a good thing

 

[keterys]

So you'd be fine if, instead of six hours, characters completely healed in five minutes, right?

As an aside... that is generally what happens. In 4e, characters spend their healing surges and top off in 5 minutes. In 3e, people use their wands of lesser vigor or whatever and hop right up. Well, more slowly up if they're the barbarian who lost 50 hp to the wizard's 10, but magical healing is weird and makes you heal slower, so that's cool, right?