D&D 4E 4E is like WoW (NOT!)

[OchreJelly]

I know this thread isn't really treading new ground, but figured I'd chime in to help raise the poor horse from the dead. As an avid WoW player and D&D player I always find these MMO statements bewildering as well. You can find any kind of similarities in games that you want to see. Ultimately I suspect reactions like this are in the "gut" category as a response to change.

The underlying question really is this: Is it bad game design to borrow good ideas from other games be it board, video, card, dice, kick-the-can, tag, sport, jenga, or drinking? IMO the focus of discussion should be on whether the mechanic works for your game, not it's source of inspiration.

Come to think of it, I have never seen a set of drinking-d&d rules... there's possible design space there...

 

[Nytmare]

Come to think of it, I have never seen a set of drinking-d&d rules... there's possible design space there...

http://blog.realitymerchants.com/articles/2007/07/18/dd-the-drinking-game/

 

[takasi]

The biggest WoW reminder to me was Magic (Arcane) Missile and Eldritch Blast (Shadow Bolt). The jury is still out on most of the other powers because we haven't seen them yet.

 

[OchreJelly]

http://blog.realitymerchants.com/articles/2007/07/18/dd-the-drinking-game/

Bless you interweb. You always come thru for me. Seriously thanks for this... wow.

 

[keterys]

Err... Magic Missile and Eldritch Blast reminded you of WoW.

But...

But...

Is this another one of those 'D&D stole elves and dwarves from WoW' jokes?

Aside: Sean definitely played WoW, though I don't know to the true extent - he's had several posts discussing WoW. In fact, I think he had several talking about things learned in WoW that should apply to D&D... I believe he also helped with the WoW collectible miniatures game (or at least had an awful lot of what seemed like insider information about it... he did work at Upper Deck). He is generically opposed to 4th edition for a variety of reasons, many of them valid (for example, too much of the marketing campaign for 4E felt like '3e sucks' which is disrespectful to the people who worked hard on it), and some of them not so much. He's a good guy, but he's very opinionated.

Unlike the rest of the internet, which is exceedingly logical and calm in all analysis and debate.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I suspect the stickier tanks and phased monster fights were inspired by WoW or another videogame. The role names (though not what they actually do) are from City of Heroes. Other similarities like the nerfing of wizards and everyone-has-powers are a case of parallel evolution imo. More balanced classes are just good game design.

Ofc 4e has also become less like WoW in a number of ways such as the importance of the battle grid and the reduced Xmas tree effect.

 

[takasi]

Is this another one of those 'D&D stole elves and dwarves from WoW' jokes?

In prior versions of D&D, the color of a magic missile was not detailed, it was an automatic hit and it was only available a few times per day.

In WoW, the missile has the same color every time, there's a chance it doesn't effect targets and it is at will.

In 4th edition, it's described as a 'silvery' bolt, there's a chance it doesn't effect targets and it is at will.

And the most bothersome part is that eldtrich blast and magic missile are nearly identical in practice, just like shadow bolt vs arcane missile. That's what really reminded me of WoW.

 

[Doug McCrae]

In WoW, the missile has the same color every time, there's a chance it doesn't effect targets and it is at will.

I don't think there are any at-will powers in WoW. They are all dependent on mana, rage or energy. And a lot of them also have a cooldown.

 

[takasi]

I don't think there are any at-will powers in WoW. They are all dependent on mana, rage or energy. And a lot of them also have a cooldown.

Same thing.

 

[keterys]

Shadowbolt and arcane missile are very different spells in WoW. Arcane missiles is also very much a copy of magic missile from older editions of D&D, down to the maximum of 5 missiles per cast... something _not_ present in 4e.

So... this is like the dwarf/elf joke, but without the joking. *boggles*