D&D 4E 4E is like WoW (NOT!)

[AverageCitizen]

I agree. It plays like Diablo.

Diablo times infinity. Assuming that the mechanics are ripped off from diablo, as you imply, you're still comparing limitless potential scenarios with the ONE that diablo provided.

 

[Nytmare]

In prior versions of D&D, the color of a magic missile was not detailed, it was an automatic hit and it was only available a few times per day.

In WoW, the missile has the same color every time, there's a chance it doesn't effect targets and there is no limit to the number of castings per day.

In 4th edition, it's described as a 'silvery' bolt, there's a chance it doesn't effect targets and there is no limit to the number of casting per day.

That's not all!!!

Arcane Missile = A(1)+R(18)+C(3)+A(1)+N(14)+E(5)+M(13)+I(9)+S(19)+S(19)+I(9)+L(12)+E(5) = 128
1+2+8=11

Magic Missile = M(13)+A(1)+G(7)+I(9)+C(3)+M(13)+I(9)+S(19)+S(19)+I(9)+L(12)+E(5) = 119
1+1+9=11


Arcane = A(1)+R(18)+C(3)+A(1)+N(14)+E(5)=42(?!)
4+2=6

Magic = M(13)+A(1)+G(7)+I(9)+C(3)=33
3+3=6

Also note that the Magic Missile totals are red, just like the above totals for Arcane Missile.

Also also note that they decided to spell the word "Magic Missile" with letters JUST LIKE THEY ALREADY USED WITH ARCANE MISSILE.

And most importantly, Magic Missile had a secretary named Arcane who told him not to go to the Ford Theater, and Arcane Missile had a secretary named Magic that told him not to go to Dallas, where he was shot in a Ford Lincoln!

 

[bramadan]

I spent more time then was good for me playing WoW.
Principal reason why WoW and DnD4 will play significantly different are the ways one pays for abilities in WoW.

Rage system does not exist in DnD and that alone is such a huge difference that it is impossible to reproduce anything *like* WoW warrior with a DnD counterpart.
Mana and Energy likewise are very much unlike the at-will or per-encounter etc... abilities.
All that leads to the fact that WoW is for most part a resource management game to a much higher degree then DnD ever was and in particular then DnD 4 is going to be.

Furthermore, the way they are doing the healer characters in DnD4 is almost exactly opposite from the way they are done in WoW. Specifically they are making DnD healers be exactly what the raiding healers in WoW would dearly love to be - effective combatants who also perform the healing duties. From everything we have seen so far, cleric will be casting quite a lot of offensive spells and warlord will be swinging sword and manipulating combat positioning while they keep the party alive. If my healing druid ever cast a star-fire during a boss encounter in WoW it was sign that either combat is utterly non-challenging or that I am dying of boredom.

Marks and Aggro are also entirely different beasts. In some ways marks are much closer to warlock curses or other debuffs in WoW. Key point about marks is that they do not provide assurance that the mob will attack the tank. Rest of the crew still have to carefully consider their strategy rather then just keep an eye on their threat-meter.

I agree that roles are same in WoW and DnD4 but I also agree with previous posters who said that the roles have existed implicitely in DnD ever since 1st ed. Healer, Striker and Controller did for sure. Fighter was also at least a bit tanky since the begining. There is a reason why the iconic party since forever was Fighter/Cleric/Magic-user/Thief.

Advancement also does not look like it will be WoW like at all. WoW has crazy easy leveling advancement followed by a steep items-only raiding "end game". DnD appears to have steady but uniform advancement path with 3 distinct "tiers" of advancement levels and no real end-game past the level cap (which should be much harder to reach then WoW level-cap - for which record now is something less then 2 days of play).

There is however one thing that the DnD4 picked up from WoW and I claim that it is a greatest single thing about WoW and well worth stealing. It is the idea that fighters (and other non-magical classes) have abilities that are as diverse and tactically interesting as the magic ones. Idea of cool combat abilities was one of the things that first really impressed me about WoW and I am very happy to see DnD4 go that direction as well.

Other then that one thing, nothing like WoW at all really, hopefully a fair bit better.

 

[Jack99]

Hey. it is really not fair to start such threads when I am out drinking, I risk to miss all the fun.

Only different in WoW is that one class can fit multiple roles depending on build - but still not all. Warrior can be tank (protection) or dps (fury), but not crowd control or healer.

Sure he can. On Razorgore the warriors not tanking could run around healing (with bandages) the ranged dps, ergo a warrior could be a healer. If a warrior offtanks a mob without killing it, he is in fact, performing crowd control.

Priest can be healer or dps, but not tank.

Tell that to the priests who tanked Onyxia pre-expansion. Not to mention that they are used as CC on some raids.

Druid can try it's strengths as dps, tank or healer, but will never be crowd control.

Oh really. Are you sure you have played WoW. Hear about Entangling Roots and Hibernate, both commonly used by the druid to crowd-control in instances and even in raids?

Not to mention that classes like the shaman could perform all 4 roles, to a certain degree.

Anyway, 4e is nothing like WoW from what we have seen. There are a few similarities, beyond all the stuff that WoW stole from DND, but it is very minor stuff. It will never make DND feel like a video-game, no matter what some people claim.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Although, amusingly those roles can be changed with respec, such that warriors can also be primary DPS, druids can be heal, dps, or tank, priests can be heals or dps, etc.

You mean like the D&D retraining rules? Don't like a feat you picked? Retrain. Don't like where you put your skill points? Retrain? Suddenyl your Power Attack (ie DPS) Fighter is now a Combat Expertise (ie Tank) Fighter.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'm a fan of MMOs, but I've always thought they're greatest weakness was that the entire game was one moment frozen in time, to be explored and replayed for ever and ever. In Everquest they are still fighting the same battle on Orc Hill that has been raging for the last... what, 15 years? The few changes that they make in an attempt to simulate actual continuity are diminished by the fact that every character I've played in WoW has killed Edwin Vancleef at least four times.

That just means that WoW, and MMOs in general, are static worlds. Where D&D is dynamic (as long as the DM wants it to be). I don't think anyone is arguing that. What they are arguing are the other similiar factors between the two. Specific mechanics and themes. Just because there are many many differences between the two doesn't mean there aren't a few similiarities. All you did was prove there is a differnce, not disprove there are similiarities.

 

[FourthBear]

I do wish people would spend less time wringing their hands over where the influences of the game came from and more time on the quality of these influences. I don't care if marking came from previous versions of D&D, other RPGs, video games, CCGs or fever dreams after a late night at the cantina. Will the game element do what is intended and is what is intended what people want?

 

[RigaMortus2]

I spent more time then was good for me playing WoW.
Principal reason why WoW and DnD4 will play significantly different are the ways one pays for abilities in WoW.

Again, you aren't saying anything new to the people who think "D&D is like WoW". They (we) are not suggesting 4E is a copy/paste job of WoW. They (we) are just suggesting there are some similiarities. Obvious rip-offs. That doesn't mean there still aren't differences.

Going back to roles for a second. In another thread, someone suggested that the roles for 4E are actually more similiar to City of Heroes than WoW. Because City of Heroes actually has 5 templates (ie roles) that you pick from. They are not shy at coming out and calling their classes (Archtypes) basically what their role is. Controller, Defender (healer), Blaster (ranged DPS), Scrappers (melee dps), and Tankers (ie melee tanks).

4E might as well have 4 classes called the Leader, Striker, Controller and Defender. Then have a 'path' to more define that class. So if you want to be a "fighter" take Defender and then the 'fighter' path. Want to be a warlock, take Striker as your class and choose the 'warlock' path or the 'ranger' path.

 

[AllisterH]

That's what's so confusing Rigamortus2.

You listed City of Heroes as the source of the "role" concept but CoH designers have always been open that this concept they lifted straight from the CHAMPIONS rpg.

And the champions rpg simply named those roles from what they were in the D&D rpg.

So basically 4E is ripping off WoW, that ripped it off of CoH who ripped it off of Champions who themselves took it from D&D. So basically, D&D is ripping off itself.....

Personally though, I started this thread because people have said, 4E PLAYS like the WoW. I've played WoW and they play nothing alike. If people actually had said, "4E's tactical combat is akin to Disgaea" I'd have a LOT more respect for their opinion.

When people say D&D rips off "specific mechanics" from WoW and yet myself and others PROVE they don't play or act anything like (4E's magic missile is akin to Arcane missile? PLEASE) and still say 4E is ripping off WoW, I wonder if they've actually played WoW.

Seriously, complaining that a scenario seems to be like pulling aggro and wondering if 4E encourages this? WTF

Respec akin to retraining? Dude, you can't be serious.

 

[The_Gneech]

Erm, which edition of Champions was this, then? I certainly never saw anything like that. The closest you'd get to that was people talking about "bricks," "flying energy blasters," "mentalists" and the like ... but those were descriptions of how the characters were built, not what their purpose in the party was.

-The Gneech