D&D 4E 4E is to be announced at GenCon?

[2WS-Steve]

I don't know if an imaginary person can be sensible and canny. There's two primary guys at Necro, Bill and Clark, and they are different people. There is no Bill Clark.

I've heard they've been dismembered, then sewn back together and will serve as a "live" model for the 4e Flesh Golem.

 

[drothgery]

The OGL can't be taken back, no...but there's no reason that 4E would have to be OGL.

Any publisher can use the OGL to make 3.5-compatible products until the end of time. However, there's nothing in the OGL that says that WotC has to use it for future editions of the game, or that they have to make 4E in any way compatible with 3.5.

And, thus, if 4E isn't OGL, the third-party publishers would no longer be able to make products that are compatible with the current edition of the game. And *that's* what's concerning to them.

I've suspected for a long time that there will be a free/inexpensive license that allows third parties to make 4e-compatible supplements, but it won't be as open as the OGL. WotC wants third parties making adventures and (relatively) niche supplements that are hard for them to do profitably. They don't really want 'alternate PHBs' out there, even if True20, Spycraft, M&M, Arcana Evolved and others have been idea mines for D&D and Star Wars.

 

[Najo]

Not necessarily. They say "the world's most popular fantasy roleplaying game" because they are not allowed to say D&D anyway. Not under the SRD or the d20 license. So why pretend?

The D20 trademark allows you to say 'requires the Dungeons and Dragons revised 3rd edition player's handbook.' Look at any 3rd parties using the D20 trademark and they have that on the back of their book. Paizo is not using the d20 trademark for some reason. They are printing under OGL solely, question is why?

 

[Vocenoctum]

The D20 trademark allows you to say 'requires the Dungeons and Dragons revised 3rd edition player's handbook.' Look at any 3rd parties using the D20 trademark and they have that on the back of their book. Paizo is not using the d20 trademark for some reason. They are printing under OGL solely, question is why?

D20 DOES have limitations built in, but I don't see where they apply to Paizo really. (Char-gen, advancement, etc)

Perhaps, just in case the extra material gets into that area, they're playing it the easy way.

 

[Najo]

The OGL can't be taken back, no...but there's no reason that 4E would have to be OGL.

Any publisher can use the OGL to make 3.5-compatible products until the end of time. However, there's nothing in the OGL that says that WotC has to use it for future editions of the game, or that they have to make 4E in any way compatible with 3.5.

And, thus, if 4E isn't OGL, the third-party publishers would no longer be able to make products that are compatible with the current edition of the game. And *that's* what's concerning to them.

If Star Wars is indication of what they could do with 4e, then they are still keeping the six abilities, the same basic combat rules, d20 being used for checks andso on.

3rd parties can take the OGL and make any changes to game mechanics they wish. A OGL book could be completely compatible with 4e and not violate the OGL. If 4e has armor with DR, saving throws replaced with defense values and no skill points...hey you can still make a book that works with that under the OGL.

What you are confused about is the D20 trademark. To get the d20 logo and be able to put 'requires the use of the revised dungeons and dragons player's handbook' The D20 trademark is another legal issue all together and where companies have to follow conduct rules that WOTC sets out. That is where WOTC could not support with 4e.

 

[Najo]

D20 DOES have limitations built in, but I don't see where they apply to Paizo really. (Char-gen, advancement, etc)

Perhaps, just in case the extra material gets into that area, they're playing it the easy way.

All of Paizo's new products do not have the d20 logo, nor do they have 'requires the D&D rev. PHB etc). They now say compatible with the world's most popular fantasy roleplaying game instead. This is either due to a) their contract ending with WOTC having a clause that they can't use the D20 trademark liscense for x period of time or b) they are choosing to not use the lisecense because they might be expecting that in the future (of 4e arrival) they will be marketing this new way and they are adapting their customer base while they still have their attention. They rather have you used to the product look and feel now then sudden and unexpected later.

 

[kenobi65]

If Star Wars is indication of what they could do with 4e, then they are still keeping the six abilities, the same basic combat rules, d20 being used for checks andso on.

3rd parties can take the OGL and make any changes to game mechanics they wish. A OGL book could be completely compatible with 4e and not violate the OGL. If 4e has armor with DR, saving throws replaced with defense values and no skill points...hey you can still make a book that works with that under the OGL.

If 4E D&D is as close to 3.5 as Star Wars Saga is, then, possibly, yes. That's an assumption. None of us know how close (or far) 4E will be from 3.5.

What you are confused about is the D20 trademark. To get the d20 logo and be able to put 'requires the use of the revised dungeons and dragons player's handbook' The D20 trademark is another legal issue all together and where companies have to follow conduct rules that WOTC sets out. That is where WOTC could not support with 4e.

Where did I ever even *mention* the D20 trademark? All I'm saying is the ability to use the 3.5 SRD is no guarantee that a third-party publisher would be able to make a product that'd be easily compatible with a putative 4E D&D.

 

[Michael_R_Proteau]

While I have heard the rumors enough to maintain a healthy level of skepticism until I hear the actual announcement, there is a certain business sense for launching 4E in conjunction with the DI.

One of the drawback to the announcement would be a slow down of sales on 3.5 products, and few companies would want to reduce a revenue stream unless another revenue stream were in place to make up the slack. What would be the new revenue stream for WoTC in the year between announcement and release? DI subscriptions. And what would be the incentive to get a DI subscription for all those who were ambivalent, on the fence or hostile after the cancellation of the Paizo mag license? Why a bird's eye view of the R&D process of 4E with regular updates, previews, and opportunity to offer feedback for subscribers only. Other new revenue streams could include increased revenue form the Dragonlance property once the film is released (if occuring in the gap between announcement and release of 4E), and any new fans/players brought in from the film release could them be directed to the release of the new edition perhaps creating a larger customer base for that as well. Increased sales form the Star Wars Saga Edition rpg during hte gap year could also help stabilize a bottom line for WotC if sales dip after an announcement as well.


Once 4E is ready to launch, you have built your customer base for the DI and created consumer habits, and get a spike in sales and revenue from sales of the new edition.

Now I know nothing for certain, and I certainly have no inside informtion, just making conjecture based on business and consumer theory and patterns I often see while teaching econoomoic history. I am probably wrong, but it was just an idea that seemed apparent from my perspective. If I were to launch a new edition, I would want to do so at a time where I had the resources to replace the revenue stream during the lost gap year and be in a position to maximize my revenue once the new edition was released.

-M

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm sending this thread to my gas station. They obviously haven't gotten the word.

I read it on the internet, so it must be true.

Pierre Salinger, is that you?

 

[helium3]

I have it on good authority that they will be announcing the conversion of D&D to a collectible card game (which will incidentally be 4th ed) at Gen Con. Then they're going to reveal who the last Scion of Jesus is.

I'm so exicted!!!