4E OGL Material?

[AZRogue]

Another question that has been mentioned several times but not yet explored (and something different than this eternal "was the OGL good/bad for WotC/Gaming?"):

How difficult would it be for someone to release material for 4E using the current OGL?


4E is going to be different, we know that, but will it be too different? The game will have levels, hit points, races, classes, feats, and skills. The different factors, like Encounter powers, at-will powers, and daily powers, could be duplicated closely without infringing, couldn't they? I think that certain types of material, namely settings and optional rule books that will, by definition, contain their own alternate rules, will be easy to produce, really.

I imagine that WotC would prefer than any company making material for 4E use the new GSL (that we haven't seen yet) instead of coming in through the backdoor by way of the OGL. How would they accomplish this, though?

Would it be better and/or easier for WotC at this point to release under the OGL and just limit certain aspects of their IP? I'm not encouraging anyone to go around the GSL by using the OGL, I'm just curious if it's possible and how that impacts what can, and should, be done now.

I'm curious what some of you guys think. A lot of you obviously have a lot more knowledge on the subject than I do. I'm interested in your opinions on whether this would be possible and, if so, what it would mean for WotC. Ideally, at this point, I'd kind of like 4E to just be released under the OGL to help mend some of the broken fences. I'm not fond of the fracturing player base.



EDIT: I apologize. I meant to post this in the OGL forums where the 4E/OGL discussions have been going on. Could a mod please move this for me? I made a mistake with my tabbed browsing.

 

[BASHMAN]

I have toyed with the idea of founding a company called Four Elves games. All products will be published under the heading: 4E. I was considering releasiing a poduct called 4E: 40 Rings and other treasures. Inside, you would see things like:

Ring of Fire Protection
At level 1-10, this item grants the wearer a +3 Reflex or Fortitude verses Fire Effects. Once per day, as an immediate action, it grants Fire Resistance 5 for a round.
At level 11-20, this item grants the wearer Fire Resistance 5. Once per day, as an immediate action, it grants Fire Resistance 10 for a round.
At level 21-30, this item grants the wearer Fire Resistance 10. Once per day, as an immediate action, it grants fire Resistance 20 for an entire round.

Later having a book w/ classes like the "Berserker" class, which can fly into a "Fury" when bloodied to "Half Maximum Hit Points" (don't think we can say bloodied as a mechanical term, but cannot stop us from using it as a verb). Instead of having to list hit dice, etc, just say, He receives hit points as a fighter, with 3 more Hit points than a fighter at 1st level, and an additional 1 hit point per level. When furying, the berserker gets +2 Fortitude and +2 Will, +10 Temporary hit points, and +2 to hit and damage for the rest of the encounter.

Berserkers choose three of the following class abilities at first level, and an additional 1 each level. (then list a bunch a dailies, at wills, etc, w/ prereqs like being a certain level, or having a previous power in the "tree" etc).

 

[kenmarable]

Can you? It really depends on how good your lawyer is.

It would be awful tricky. A lot of it probably could be reverse engineered like OSRIC, but unlike OSRIC, I'm sure WotC would absolutely not look the other way.

I mulled it over, but with how much the game is changing, I certainly wouldn't want to risk it since your intent would be quite obvious, and WotC would certainly care about not letting it happen if they could. So my #1 advice is - don't do it. But if you don't follow that, my #2 advice is adhere to their Cease and Desist letters once they arrive. Whether or not you had a good run of it, the party's over. Ignoring that, my #3 advice is to make sure you are incorporated beforehand so that you can keep your house and car.

 

[arscott]

Game rules are not restricted by copyright. However, specific expressions of game rules are. And copyright protects not only the original material, but also derivative works.

So if you were to do something that uses 4e terminology, then WotC could sue you for copyright infringement, claiming that your book is a derived from their copyrighted expression of the D&D rules.

On the other hand, you could do what epochrpg does above and create 4e rules using the 3rd-edition terminology. Which would probably be pretty difficult--the examples above are among the easiest.

He still might get sued for advertising his stuff as "4e" though. He might be treading upon WotC trademark. And the whole "Four Elves" thing just screams bad faith.

 

[AZRogue]

So it does seem possible, then? At least for some products?

The reason I ask is because, if it is possible, it might be to their advantage to just release under the OGL. I'm probably wrong, as I'm not a lawyer and no one side has any real data to support whether the OGL has been a good or bad thing, but it seems like a real option now.

I know that, for me personally, I would consider releasing 4E under the OGL (or a modified addition, like a new d20 license?) a coup for them. It would certainly look good, from a PR perspective.

 

[xechnao]

And copyright protects not only the original material, but also derivative works.

What do you mean by derivative works exactly? And are there any examples of this?

 

[malraux]

Can you? It really depends on how good your lawyer is.

I suspect that its actually how much money are you willing to spend on your lawyer.

 

[arscott]

All of the following are derivative works of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, by J.K. Rowling:

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (The American localization)
Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal (The Spanish language translation)
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (The Warner Bros. Movie adaptation)
Harry Potter ant the Chamber of Secrets (a sequel)
This piece of fanart
This Lego set
This Harry/Draco slashfic

So a pretty broad category. Technically, you need the copyright holder's permission to do any of those things, or you can get sued.

But note that neither of the following are Derivative works:
This webcomic parody (parody is protected by Fair Use doctrine, and thus not subject to Copyright)
The Legend of Rah and the Muggles (A book that shares a number of coincidental similarities, Including a character named Larry Potter.)

The author of the Rah book (written well before the first Harry Potter book) tried to sue J.K. Rowling, but lost. Words and character names aren't copyrightable (though they may be trademarked), nor are general ideas (only the specific executions of those ideas, including text, characterization, and story structure)

 

[xechnao]

Your examples share the characteristics AND the name of the original characteristics AND name.
So a work that shares only characteristics and no name is considered not derivate?

 

[El Mahdi]

Has the OGL been good for Gaming? Unequivocally yes!

Has the OGL been good for the Gaming Industry? Not only has it been good, but it was essential. I believe it saved the Industry from collapsing on itself.

Has the OGL been good for WoTC? Initially, Yes. Now, No. Without a rules system change, the D20 well is dry for WoTC. There is nothing else they can do with it that a 3rd party publisher can't do better. This is probably one of the reasons for a new edition.

Would it be difficult to release material for 4E using the current OGL? Yes and No.

No - without following the GSL, you will not be able to release material directly for 4E.

Yes - it would be easy to introduce concepts that are similar to 4E for 3.5E. The concept of "encounters", "at will", and "daily" are not exclusive to 4E or any system. You could easily make Feats and Spells that mimic these functions in 4E. Also, you could make changes to classes and races that are similar. Other things, like the new Death and Dying, Second Wind and Bloodied are easily used, you may just need to use different language although the overall effect would be the same. The things that would be exclusively 4E would be the exact new classes, races and their underlying structures. Also, the underlying "math" of the new edition would be out of bounds. You would not be able to apply this underlying math to 3.5E. Not only would this probably violate the GSL, but would essentially make it 4E, in which case you may as well use the new edition.