Let's say "calculated". Deliberate.
Uggh. Thanks for pointing that out.
I forgot why I multiclassed to begin with. Nothing else to really spend feats on.
4e's [W] damage discrepancy
- Thread starter Felon
- Start date
I forgot why I multiclassed to begin with. Nothing else to really spend feats on.
Felon-
1. He's paying for his race/weapon choice somewhere. I don't know what his ability scores look like, but he's basically two points behind in accuracy in comparison to an equivalent human or dragonborn using a heavy blade. I'd say that's behind enough to call his attack bonus poor. If you were using point buy he may have purchased himself an 18 starting stat, but if he did, he's just losing out elsewhere, because that cost him 17 out of his initial 22 ability score points. A comparable human would have paid for only a 16, then used his racial bonus to top it off, gaining a lot of points to spend elsewhere.
2. I do agree that there's a disparity between the availability of damage boosting feats for the various classes. It looks like they provided a sample, so to speak, of the total feats they intend you to be using in the heroic tier. For example, WOTC seems to intend the game to be played so that every major military weapon has a superior weapon counterpart- but they only put the bastard sword in the PHB. I suspect that we'll be seeing an awful lot of increase in the base power level once these sorts of feats become available for other classes and weapon options. I have mixed feelings on this decision.
That being said, I don't consider the damage boosting feats that presently exist for spellcasters to be weak, even if they do have ability score prereqs, and even if they do only apply to certain elements. That seems to be how spellcasters specialize- by picking chosen elemental damage types. I expect that we won't see feats that remove these prereqs or allow other damage boosts, we'll instead see feats that give other benefits to fire mages, ice mages, etc, and which expand upon the prereqs as a basis for a particular build.
That isn't really related to [W] though.
3. You've got some area of effect attacks built right into the warlock class, you know. Your level 3 infernal pact encounter power is an area of attack, as is, I believe, your level 5. Both do decent amounts of damage that can be augmented by smart play and intelligent use of your curse.
1. He's paying for his race/weapon choice somewhere. I don't know what his ability scores look like, but he's basically two points behind in accuracy in comparison to an equivalent human or dragonborn using a heavy blade. I'd say that's behind enough to call his attack bonus poor. If you were using point buy he may have purchased himself an 18 starting stat, but if he did, he's just losing out elsewhere, because that cost him 17 out of his initial 22 ability score points. A comparable human would have paid for only a 16, then used his racial bonus to top it off, gaining a lot of points to spend elsewhere.
2. I do agree that there's a disparity between the availability of damage boosting feats for the various classes. It looks like they provided a sample, so to speak, of the total feats they intend you to be using in the heroic tier. For example, WOTC seems to intend the game to be played so that every major military weapon has a superior weapon counterpart- but they only put the bastard sword in the PHB. I suspect that we'll be seeing an awful lot of increase in the base power level once these sorts of feats become available for other classes and weapon options. I have mixed feelings on this decision.
That being said, I don't consider the damage boosting feats that presently exist for spellcasters to be weak, even if they do have ability score prereqs, and even if they do only apply to certain elements. That seems to be how spellcasters specialize- by picking chosen elemental damage types. I expect that we won't see feats that remove these prereqs or allow other damage boosts, we'll instead see feats that give other benefits to fire mages, ice mages, etc, and which expand upon the prereqs as a basis for a particular build.
That isn't really related to [W] though.
3. You've got some area of effect attacks built right into the warlock class, you know. Your level 3 infernal pact encounter power is an area of attack, as is, I believe, your level 5. Both do decent amounts of damage that can be augmented by smart play and intelligent use of your curse.
Ah, yes... the Rogue and the Ranger.
The Rogue requires a Light Blade, a Crossbow or a Sling for most of their powers to work. Light Blades top out at d6 damage, sling likewise. The Crossbow is the best bet - the Superior Crossbow does 1d10 damage - but has that annoying "Reload minor" ability. Not to mention that Rogues dealing sneak attack with ranged weapons do require some cover around and to spend a lot of movement hiding.
The Ranger is much better off. He can use the Greatbow (d12 damage). However, if you check their dailies, they tend to be worse than the Warlock. Flames of Phlegethos (Warlock Daily 1) which deals 3d10+Con on a hit, and always deals 5 ongoing (save ends) stacks up very well against any Ranger power.
Cheers!
The benefit of the ranger in general is that you get multiple chances to apply your striker bonus damage (also true of warlock AE powers, but warlocks don't get that many of those, and just about every ranger power involves 2 attack rolls) and you get to double-dip your weapon-related damage bonuses. The archer ranger has an added benefit on top of that in that it can hit out further than anyone else.
The heavy flail is pretty much the same as the maul except for working with flail powers instead of maul powers.
Well, the rogue can upgrade to the rapier easily enough. Then he can milk x[1d8] for it and then layer on 2d8 with sneak attack (yes, I do think the backstabber feat is a given for anyone interested in optimization). He's in melee, but like I've said, warlock powers require such closeness to work that they're easily engaged--at which point, using ranged attacks is now an oppy-provoking hazard, not an attack-avoiding benefit.
The ranger might have downsides to compensate for the top-of-the-line AAA damage output that I haven't noticed yet--only recently had one player start playing one--but if so, they're assiduously well-concealted.
Ranged 10 is close?
Quick look at damage codes for Warlock, Ranger, Rogue and Fighter at various levels:
At Will: (1st)
Warlock: 1d10+1d6+Con
Ranger: 1d12+1d6+Dex
Rogue: 1d8+2d8+Dex
Fighter: 2d6+Str
9th
Warlock: 3d10+1d6+Con + immobilized (save ends)
Ranger: 6d12+1d6+Dex - wow! That's Attacks on the Run.
Rogue: 3d8+2d8+Dex + slide target
Fighter: 6d6+Str and slowed (save ends)
19th
Warlock: 4d10+2d6+Cha and target disappears into a starry realm (1d10/round, save ends)
Rogue: 6d8+3d8+Dex and shift when attacked by target
Ranger: 4d12+2d6+Dex
Fighter: 10d6+Str and push 1 square
29th
Warlock: 7d10+3d6+Con and target disappears into Hell until you no longer sustain
Ranger: 6d12+Dex*3+3d6, half damage on miss
Rogue: 7d8+8d8+Dex
Fighter: 14d6+Str
Averages at 29th: Warlock 49; Ranger 49.5; Rogue 67.5, Fighter 49
Cheers!
At Will: (1st)
Warlock: 1d10+1d6+Con
Ranger: 1d12+1d6+Dex
Rogue: 1d8+2d8+Dex
Fighter: 2d6+Str
9th
Warlock: 3d10+1d6+Con + immobilized (save ends)
Ranger: 6d12+1d6+Dex - wow! That's Attacks on the Run.
Rogue: 3d8+2d8+Dex + slide target
Fighter: 6d6+Str and slowed (save ends)
19th
Warlock: 4d10+2d6+Cha and target disappears into a starry realm (1d10/round, save ends)
Rogue: 6d8+3d8+Dex and shift when attacked by target
Ranger: 4d12+2d6+Dex
Fighter: 10d6+Str and push 1 square
29th
Warlock: 7d10+3d6+Con and target disappears into Hell until you no longer sustain
Ranger: 6d12+Dex*3+3d6, half damage on miss
Rogue: 7d8+8d8+Dex
Fighter: 14d6+Str
Averages at 29th: Warlock 49; Ranger 49.5; Rogue 67.5, Fighter 49
Cheers!
Indeed.
The Warlock is a striker with flashes of controller; the Fighter has a reliable 29th power, the Warlock sends someone to hell (basically removing it from the fight until he chooses).
The Ranger is great at attacking multiple targets, and generally weak at secondary effects.
The Rogue is the best striker, but requires to be in melee or have cover about to actually employ sneak attack.
Cheers!
