+5 Adamantine Armor Spikes of Defending

Corwin

Explorer
So what are the particulars and mechanics around using something like this?

Is it an extra +5 to AC all the time?

Is it only applicable if you "allocate" an off-hand attack to "activate" them"?

Must you actually use them to attack with before it applies?

Should this just be forgotten and we all agree to pretend it doesn't exist?
 

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kreynolds

First Post
Corwin said:
Is it an extra +5 to AC all the time?

Armor spikes do not grant an AC bonus, nor are they considered Armor. They are armor add-ons and are treated as weapons. You would get +5 to attacks with the spikes.
 
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Corwin

Explorer
Re: Re: +5 Adamantine Armor Spikes of Defending

One of my favorite kinds of replies on a forum like this are the ones that come from someone who thinks they are being superior and correcting someone, when in fact, they are just making themselves look foolish. I see it a lot. I don't know why it is so common.

Re-read the title of this thread.

"+5 Adamantine Armor Spikes of Defending"

Now. Would you like to try this again without the need to correct someone who isn't wrong?

Sorry for the mini-rant.
 

kreynolds

First Post
Re: Re: Re: +5 Adamantine Armor Spikes of Defending

Corwin said:
Sorry for the mini-rant.

No problem. I missed that. Hows this for an answer?

Treat it just like a frickin' defending weapon. :rolleyes: ;)

Sorry for the mini-mini-rant.
 
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Epametheus

First Post
I'd say that no, you couldn't, unless you actually tried to impale something with the spikes that round -- they're "inactive" until you try to really use them. So making an off-hand attack with them would do the trick.

Though if Defending could actually be used with a undrawn weapon (very unlikely), I'd say that the answer would be yes, you can leech +5 to AC off of your 72k gp armor spikes.
 
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Corwin

Explorer
Epametheus said:
I'd say that no, you couldn't, unless you actually tried to impale something with the spikes that round -- they're "inactive" until you try to really use them. So making an off-hand attack with them would do the trick.

Though if Defending could actually be used with a undrawn weapon (very unlikely), I'd say that the answer would be yes, you can leech +5 to AC off of your 72k gp armor spikes.

I agree that you can't leech a sheathed weapon. The subtle problem here is that armor spikes are always ready. They are out and "armed" all the time. That's one of their advantages.

Here, try this one:

If a rogue had a pair of defending daggers, and spring attacked someone with one of them, can the AC from both be applied?

The reason this is applicable, is because on of the two daggers is "readied" (by being held), but not being used. So is the AC bonus from defending usable? If so, this is similar to armor spikes because they are in a similar situation by being worn.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
Corwin said:


I agree that you can't leech a sheathed weapon. The subtle problem here is that armor spikes are always ready. They are out and "armed" all the time. That's one of their advantages.

Ready for use, and actually being used, are two different things.

Here, try this one:

If a rogue had a pair of defending daggers, and spring attacked someone with one of them, can the AC from both be applied?

No. Weapon abilities like that are use activated. You actually have to be using the weapon before you can activate the ability.

This has been answered by The Sage in the past, and I believe it is in the D&D FAQ.

The reason this is applicable, is because on of the two daggers is "readied" (by being held), but not being used. So is the AC bonus from defending usable? If so, this is similar to armor spikes because they are in a similar situation by being worn.

It is identical to the situation with the armor spikes, and the answer is the same: If you are not actually using the weapon (as in allocating an attack action to it), you cannot use any use activated abilities of the weapon.
 

Epametheus

First Post
Defending mentions "weapon of choice," so he can probably only leech AC off of the dagger that he used in the Spring Attack; in theory, that's also the dagger he'd have to use in any AoOs, since it's his chosen primary weapon for the round.

So if you have two weapons with Defending and you can only attack with one of them, you could only activate Defending on the one that you actually used; since you aren't using the other one, it doesn't do anything for you.
 

Valdier

Explorer
so no full defense?

So then a person taking a full defense option couldn't use the weapon right? A person taking a partial defense action could though?

So if you are truly interested in only defending yourself, you can't, but if you half ass try to stay alive you can? :)
 


Hejdun

First Post
I'd allow him to do it, simply because it cost him 72,000 gp to do so. That's a hell of a lot of gold to spend on a weapon that you won't use much, and if used simply for the AC, there are other, more cost effective ways to raise it.
 

kreynolds

First Post
Hejdun said:
I'd allow him to do it, simply because it cost him 72,000 gp to do so. That's a hell of a lot of gold to spend on a weapon that you won't use much...

I guess the fact that it's a weapon you can't be disarmed of, short of destroying your armor, doesn't make the cost worth it? How about the fact that grappling someone with armor spikes is a real pain in the rear, mostly due to the fact that they always have a light weapon available to attack you with, and the weapon deals normal damage instead of subdual? They already get enough, IMO.
 
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Weeble

First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re: +5 Adamantine Armor Spikes of Defending

kreynolds said:


No problem. I missed that. Hows this for an answer?

Treat it just like a frickin' defending weapon. :rolleyes: ;)

Sorry for the mini-mini-rant.

Showing your age again huh?
 


Gromm

First Post
Hejdun said:
I'd allow him to do it, simply because it cost him 72,000 gp to do so. That's a hell of a lot of gold to spend on a weapon that you won't use much, and if used simply for the AC, there are other, more cost effective ways to raise it.

There might be more cost effective ways, but I'll bet none of them stack with everything. 72k isn't that much to get a +5 dodge bonus all the time. In fact its way too cheap considering it doesn't take any item slots, and doubles as a +5 weapon whenever you need it. Min cost should be at least 100k (Ring of Prot +5 is 50k, and this doesn't take a slot and is also a +5 weapon).
Its really no different than having a +5 Defending Sickle that can't be disarmed. Just having the sickle at your side doesn't give the bonus so this is no different. It has to be used in combat to defend (see it as magically parrying incoming attacks and maybe it makes more sense).
 


Ridley's Cohort

First Post
Epametheus said:
Defending mentions "weapon of choice," so he can probably only leech AC off of the dagger that he used in the Spring Attack; in theory, that's also the dagger he'd have to use in any AoOs, since it's his chosen primary weapon for the round.

So if you have two weapons with Defending and you can only attack with one of them, you could only activate Defending on the one that you actually used; since you aren't using the other one, it doesn't do anything for you.

I dunno.

Obviously if you are using a greatsword to attack with you are not "wielding" the +5 Defender Gauntlet.

But your description puts a really big constraint on normal TWF that does not seem supported by the rules.

There is nothing unbalancing about someone with a +5 Defending Gauntlet in his left hand while attacking with a Bastard Sword in the right, even if he does not attack with his left hand.

A Rogue could wear a mithril buckler +5 and get a better AC bonus for half the cost.

A Wizard could do better with all kinds of other defensive magic items. Cloak of Displacement?

Only the Monk gains some perverse advantage. Even then he is buying an item at weapon prices that is primarily defensive. He could just buy a +6 Ring of Deflection. Or Bracers +8.

Doesn't seem like much of a problem to me as long as your restrict the definition of "wielding" to keeping that hand open and unused.
 

Ridley's Cohort

First Post
Gromm said:

There might be more cost effective ways, but I'll bet none of them stack with everything. 72k isn't that much to get a +5 dodge bonus all the time. In fact its way too cheap considering it doesn't take any item slots, and doubles as a +5 weapon whenever you need it.

Gauntlet/glove is a well defined slot.

If you want to give up your Gloves of Dexterity +6 or Gauntlets of Strength +6 and pay a premium above and beyond that, I do not see a problem.
 

Valdier

Explorer
Ridley's Cohort said:


Gauntlet/glove is a well defined slot.

If you want to give up your Gloves of Dexterity +6 or Gauntlets of Strength +6 and pay a premium above and beyond that, I do not see a problem.

I think sometimes people just lack the basic ability to read.

We are talking about armor spikes... not gloves or gauntlets.

Also, the great thing about defending items working when you aren't using them, take a whole stack of useless defending items and just "have" them to stack the bonus AC for cheap. Defending spiked gaultlets, 2 of them, Defending armor spikes, defending off hand weapon... make them admantine (free +2), then make them +1 defenders, 11k gold for +2 AC that stacks with everything, including itself.
 

jontherev

First Post
Valdier said:


I think sometimes people just lack the basic ability to read.

We are talking about armor spikes... not gloves or gauntlets.

Also, the great thing about defending items working when you aren't using them, take a whole stack of useless defending items and just "have" them to stack the bonus AC for cheap. Defending spiked gaultlets, 2 of them, Defending armor spikes, defending off hand weapon... make them admantine (free +2), then make them +1 defenders, 11k gold for +2 AC that stacks with everything, including itself.

Adamantine weapons don't confer bonuses to AC, if that's what you are inferring. I think you have to be using the defending weapon to get its bonus. In the case of the TWF who is not taking a full attack action, I guess you wouldn't get the benefit of the defending weapon unless you attack with it. Either that, or apply the standard TWF penalties to the one attack and let him use the offhand defending weapon bonus to AC.
 

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