D&D 5E 5' Step and AoO

[sithramir]

So I was just playing a game and it occured to me that there might not be a 5' step rule now.

In 5E we can move, attack, move which is different from the oldern 3.x days. If a creature there's a group of creatures in melee can you use a 5' step now without an AoO? I'm thinking of an instance where 2 groups are fighting. One character moves around an enemy to get to a different spot. It works fine against that enemy if you don't leave his threat range. However, if you only move 5' and it moves out of another creatures threat range you incur an AoO?

Does this mean that a caster who has a creature run up to him basically has no option to cast a spell or moe away OTHER than spending the action to disengage?

 

[Paraxis]

There is no 5' step, only the disengage action.

But the ONLY thing that causes an AoO is moving out of an enemies reach, there is no reason for the caster to back away, he can cast spells all day long next to the enemy if he wishes. I will point out the shocking grasp cantrip is amazing for this, you attack the enemy if it hits does nice damage and the target can't take reactions, so the wizard just moves away.

The only penalty for being next to an enemy is disadvantage on ranged attack, this does apply to ranged spells and the only thing a spellcaster needs to be concerned with.

Also of note the ranged attack disadvantage penalty is only if within 5 feet, you don't provoke AoO until you leave reach, so against a giant for example you back up so you are 10' away and shoot your arrow or cast your ranged spell, you don't provoke an attack for moving and you don't take disadvantage on the attack roll.

One more thing just to be clear, moving out of the enemies reach is exactly that, you can run a circle around the enemy and not provoke an AoO, only moving away from the enemy and leaving his reach provokes.

And since I think it needs to be said, the Disengage action makes you immune to ALL attacks of opportunity for the turn so a common tactic is to use it to run through lines of enemies to get to the target in the back.

 

[Joe Liker]

Also of note the ranged attack disadvantage penalty is only if within 5 feet, you don't provoke AoO until you leave reach, so against an ogre for example you back up so you are 10' away and shoot your arrow or cast your ranged spell, you don't provoke an attack for moving and you don't take disadvantage on the attack roll.

People really need to stop using ogres for this example.

An ogre's attacks have a reach of 5', not 10'.

Try a giant or something.

 

[Paraxis]

People really need to stop using ogres for this example.

An ogre's attacks have a reach of 5', not 10'.

Try a giant or something.

True, just so use to them having reach. Fixed my previous post to use giant as you suggested.

 

[sithramir]

I like how fearless your casters must be in your games but i'm thinking in terms of when something DEADLY makes it into melee with them. Casting right there likely means they die the next round damage wise.

I'm just thinking that making a 5' step and allowing an ally to step in front of you can work great but that isn't an option without specifically taking the Disengage action now.

Also when trying to attack another creature with sneak attack but moving 5' can cause an AoO from the other melee folks you're nearby now, etc (I know rogues can have cunning action) but just trying to be clear about what happens since I dislike having to use a full action when a 5' step might work if I have adjacent allies0

 

[Paraxis]

I like how fearless your casters must be in your games but i'm thinking in terms of when something DEADLY makes it into melee with them. Casting right there likely means they die the next round damage wise.

I'm just thinking that making a 5' step and allowing an ally to step in front of you can work great but that isn't an option without specifically taking the Disengage action now.

Also when trying to attack another creature with sneak attack but moving 5' can cause an AoO from the other melee folks you're nearby now, etc (I know rogues can have cunning action) but just trying to be clear about what happens since I dislike having to use a full action when a 5' step might work if I have adjacent allies0

I wouldn't say fearless, just they would rather do something constructive with their action besides just moving away, so like I said shocking grasp is a great cantrip in this situation as well as an effective save based spell where you shut down the dangerous enemy next to you instead of trying to play keep away.

The rogue in one of my games likes to use his off hand weapon to get in extra attacks with his bonus action so he took the Mobile feat and uses that to attack the target he is engaged with then moves away and attacks the other target he wants to sneak attack.

 

[KarinsDad]

I like how fearless your casters must be in your games but i'm thinking in terms of when something DEADLY makes it into melee with them. Casting right there likely means they die the next round damage wise.

If something is so deadly that it will kill a caster on the very next round, it's probably deadly enough to at least knock out a non-caster with some lucky to hit rolls. I often play a caster away from the front lines, but when a melee foe, even a tough one, gets in close, I'll allow my caster to take hits without running away. I think that it balances out healing resources (specifically short rest hit dice ones) and it allows for attacking if the caster is not disengaging.

I'm just thinking that making a 5' step and allowing an ally to step in front of you can work great but that isn't an option without specifically taking the Disengage action now.

I think the designers were trying to get away from the large number of tactical possibilities that early editions brought to the table. As for this particular example, the monster could also just 5' step in earlier editions, so there were a lot of cases where using it for interposing an ally (unless it was a defender) really didn't work.

Also when trying to attack another creature with sneak attack but moving 5' can cause an AoO from the other melee folks you're nearby now, etc (I know rogues can have cunning action) but just trying to be clear about what happens since I dislike having to use a full action when a 5' step might work if I have adjacent allies0

It sounds like you miss the option. You want to be able to safely get away and get an attack in. The best way to do that in 5E is to get two PCs on each tough attacker, that way the attacker cannot move without either provoking or disengaging. Use the rule against the attacker that you yourself do not like.

 

[KarinsDad]

The rogue in one of my games likes to use his off hand weapon to get in extra attacks with his bonus action so he took the Mobile feat and uses that to attack the target he is engaged with then moves away and attacks the other target he wants to sneak attack.

We just got to 4th level and the Bard in our group grabbed the Mobile feat. She has a bit of a low AC and she wants to try the tactic of moving in on a foe that is already engaged, and then moving away safely. That way, the foe will often have to provoke if it wants to retaliate.

 

[Lerysh]

I like how fearless your casters must be in your games but i'm thinking in terms of when something DEADLY makes it into melee with them. Casting right there likely means they die the next round damage wise.

I'm just thinking that making a 5' step and allowing an ally to step in front of you can work great but that isn't an option without specifically taking the Disengage action now.

Also when trying to attack another creature with sneak attack but moving 5' can cause an AoO from the other melee folks you're nearby now, etc (I know rogues can have cunning action) but just trying to be clear about what happens since I dislike having to use a full action when a 5' step might work if I have adjacent allies0

In this situation you either want to attempt Shocking Grasp and move away, or cast a spell that doesn't involve a range attack and be ready with your Shield spell on defense. A mage with Mage Armor plus Shield has better AC than a fighter in platemail with a greatsword, because the mage gets to add Dex. Also I'd suggest moving through his threat area to be next to the Fighter/Paladin who has Protection. Free disadvantage if it chooses you as a target.

There are options for not provoking Opportunity Attacks, many of them are not available until 4th level. If something that can kill you in one hit manages to get next to you someone on the front line didn't do their job very well.

 

[TerraDave]

I like how fearless your casters must be in your games but i'm thinking in terms of when something DEADLY makes it into melee with them. Casting right there likely means they die the next round damage wise.

Or you hit with shocking grasp, as noted. As with cunning action, there are different ways to move on the battlefield, and a few ways to protect your allies, and a different ways casters can protect themselves.