5' Step Questions (Moved from House Rules)

[StAlda]

I have removed the 5' step from my game, and my spellcasters didn't start dropping like flies. If all you do in a round is move, there is no AoO. And that's what they do, they "get out of Dodge" when they are engaged in melee, or they fight!

Chances are the lightly armed Wizard can outrun the loaded down Fighter, so the first round the Wizard is engaged, he moves his full movement away. The second round he can cast a spell and move his full movement, and so on. Only the Barbarian would give them(Spellcasters) grief, and that kind of falls into place with the enmity between the two.

Our combat is far from static, nonmoving - BORING.

Pressing Attack sound like an awesome Feat, I'd almost bring back the 5' step for that Feat.

 

[Majere]

I have removed the 5' step from my game, and my spellcasters didn't start dropping like flies. If all you do in a round is move, there is no AoO. And that's what they do, they "get out of Dodge" when they are engaged in melee, or they fight!

Chances are the lightly armed Wizard can outrun the loaded down Fighter, so the first round the Wizard is engaged, he moves his full movement away. The second round he can cast a spell and move his full movement, and so on. Only the Barbarian would give them(Spellcasters) grief, and that kind of falls into place with the enmity between the two.

Our combat is far from static, nonmoving - BORING.

Pressing Attack sound like an awesome Feat, I'd almost bring back the 5' step for that Feat.

Id love to be a barbarian in your game.
Barbarian charges mage, whacks mage.
Mage does nothing but move
Barbarian charges mage, whacks mage.

Rinse repeat until mage dead.

The 5' step is there because you can move AND attack, infact you can double move and attack. If you take out the 5's step non melee people basically can never act without giving up an attack of opportunity.

Majere

 

[Will]

In my experience, the mage simply invests in Concentration and always combat casts.

5' step is useless in that instance. Sure, there's that chance you might loose the spell. But the barbarian is just going to 5' step and Full Smack anyway.

 

[Darklone]

Right, Will. Or the mages have tumble. Moving back behind an obstacle isn't that hard.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Another thing I don't think you can make a 5ft step and make a move action after. It could lead to situation where you exceed your maximum move.

So the archer could not make a 5 foot step, draw his bow and attack with it.

You can't take a 5' step in the same round that you move any actual distance.

Drawing a bow is a move action, but it is not moving actual distance.

You can stand from prone (move action), 5' step, and cast a spell (standard action), for example. But you can't move 30 feet, 5' step, and cast a spell.

-Hyp.

 

[2o-Eyed Foe]

As I was at work today I was thinking more about this discussion and I realized what it actually was that has been "bugging" me about the 5' step. I use the word bugging loosely because, as I have stated before, I do not have a problem with the idea of the 5' step nor do I have any desire to remove it from my campaign.

According to the PHB pg. 144 you can take a 5' step, take a move equivalent action (action as long as it is not actually moving again) and then make a standard action in your turn. Based on the formula of allowable actions in a given turn (barring the use of haste and so forth):

1 round of action = 1 free action, 1 standard action and 1 move equivalent action - or some combination thereof.

Even though the 5’ step is listed under the No Action list, it is basically functioning in the same manner as a free action (at least according to the above formula when compared to the text on pg 144). Your move equivalent action is the drawing of your weapon, your standard action is your attack and your free action becomes your 5’ step. In fact the other No Action listed with the 5’ step is delay. I don’t care how quickly you can move, you can certainly think to wait for something much more quickly than you can actually move 5’ while concentrating on not leaving yourself open.

If you look at the list of free action examples (PHB pg 141) all of them either require a feat (cast a quickened spell) or are something you could easily do in less than a second. How long does it take to drop an item or fall down (in the case of drop to the floor)?

Once again I go back to PHB 144, where it states that you can take a 5’ step, DRAW A WEAPON, AND attack on your turn. Now, I will agree that a person can move 5’ very quickly. But keep in mind that you are not just moving, but concentrating on not being attacked and moving in such a fashion so as not to leave yourself open to attack. This is going to take a little longer than simply stepping 5’ when not in combat.

I agree that in my previous post I overstated my case by saying that the 5’ step could be unbalancing, this perhaps was a tad overdramatic. However, I still contend that the 5’ step is very powerful since you can also take a standard action AND a move equivalent action in the same round that you take the 5’ step. Perhaps if the 5’ step was classified as a move equivalent action the result would make more sense.

1 round = 1 move equivalent action (or a 5’ step to avoid the AoP), 1 standard action, and a free action (if desired)

2o-Eyed Foe

 

[Hypersmurf]

1 round of action = 1 free action, 1 standard action and 1 move equivalent action - or some combination thereof.

There is no limit of one free action. You can take as many free actions in a round as you wish, up to what the DM deems "reasonable".

Quickened spells are an exception, as are the new "swift actions" defined in the XPH.

-Hyp.

 

[StAlda]

Id love to be a barbarian in your game.
Barbarian charges mage, whacks mage.
Mage does nothing but move
Barbarian charges mage, whacks mage.

Rinse repeat until mage dead.

The 5' step is there because you can move AND attack, infact you can double move and attack. If you take out the 5's step non melee people basically can never act without giving up an attack of opportunity.

Majere

No you wouldn't, I changed the +10' movement to this.
Unfettered Movement (Ex): A barbarian’s land speed is unchanged when moving a crossed an area that would hamper movement (see TACTICAL MOVEMENT). This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn.

The extra movement rate for a barbarian always bugged me, so I wacked it.

Besides as someone already stated, My mage would "Combat Cast" your Barbarian into the dirt, from the adjacent square.

 

[Korak]

Basically the reason the 5' step is balanced is this: It doesn't remove you from the full attack range of your opponent.

So, you can take your 5'step avoid an AOO and do your worst, but if you don't incapacitate you foe, you have to feel his full attack. However, if you sacrifice your action (or invest in tumble ranks to offset that penalty) you can move out of full attack range and limit your oponent to a single attack (or possibly none depending on relative movement rates and terrain). Or, you can suffer a single attack of opportunity in order to salvage your action (if you don't have the tumble skill), once again limiting your opponent to a move and attack in reply. Because of the enormous difference in damage output between single attack versus full attack at higher levels, the 5' step is balanced. You certainly don't get the AOO avoidance for free. In fact, given the difference between full attack vs single attack, you pay a very high price for the AOO avoidance, assuming your opponent lives.

 

[Tyrol]

Much as Korak said, the 5' step is balanced and reasonable as it stands. A low level character can use it to move and make a full round attack at close range against a high level character, sure, but that high level character is just going to 5' step back in range at the next opportunity and execute a full round attack of his own. And its likely that the low level full round attack is going to be alot less effective than the high level full round attack.