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D&D 5E [5e] Are classes too generic? (Read the OP before answering)

atanakar

Hero
I have a very good campaign idea but looking at the class list (including 3rd level archetypes) I find that none of them would fit the concept. Don't get me wrong D&D classes are great and they work well within a certain style of play that I've enjoyed a lot over the decades. But this time I can't find what I'm looking for.

Seems like I have to design my own 5e classes. Have you done that with 5e? How did you go about it?
 
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What are you looking for?

I'm thinking of a Witch/Shaman class that can use a mix of arcane and divine spells. I don't what the player to do that using multi-classing. I prefer making a class from the ground up. I might have been reading to many old Dragon Magazines lately... :)
 


Technically in 5e a spell is only divine or arcane based on the caster casting the spell. So when a light domain cleric casts fireball, it is a divine spell, and when a wizard casts it, it is an arcane spell. When a cleric casts sacred flame, it is a divine spell, and when a celestial pact warlock casts it, it is an arcane spell.
 

I'm thinking of a Witch/Shaman class that can use a mix of arcane and divine spells. I don't what the player to do that using multi-classing. I prefer making a class from the ground up. I might have been reading to many old Dragon Magazines lately... :)

Just make a custom spell list and use whatever base class the player wants.
 

Well, particular types of spells aren't tied to specific power sources. Bards for example have been able to cast arcane cure spells since 3rd edition, for example. So if all you are looking for is a witch-type character who can truthfully say her spells come from arcane and divine sources, then you can implement that without any changes at all to the core ruleset, you just have to make sure you stick to the spell list of a single class.

The problem comes if you're going to let characters take the top blasting/debuff spells from the wizard list and combine them with the top healing/buff spells from the cleric list. I've had lots of players propose this with ostensibly pure motives but the invariable result is an OP character, because class spell lists aren't balanced against the synergies that can occur when characters can mix-and-match across them.

You can say, well, as DM I'll just police that and make sure only weak-to-average spells are chosen by the character, but then you've taken on a lot of work for yourself while generating disenchantment on the part of the player at your heavy-handedness. Or you can try something like the prohibited-school mechanic, though one thing I've learned over the years is that players are very good at identifying the prohibited schools that won't get in the way of their OP ideas. Or you can do something like the mystic theurge and make sure the character is always behind a "pure" caster of either type, but then even if you end up with something balanced overall the character won't be the best at anything so you'll end up with player complaints.

So the question you should ask is first, in a party-based game is this a solution in search of a problem? Then if you decide it is a genuine problem, what mechanical safeguards are you going to put in place to ensure your new class doesn't unintentionally become the game's top caster?
 

I have a very good campaign idea but looking at the class list (including 3rd level archetypes) I find that none of them would fit the concept. Don't get me wrong D&D classes are great and they work well within a certain style of play that I've enjoyed a lot over the decades. But this time I can't find what I'm looking for.

Seems like I have to design my own 5e classes. Have you done that with 5e? How did you go about it?

List of options:

Wizard with Ritual Caster: Druid Feat, Divine Soul Sorcerer with Ritual Caster Druid Feat, Circle of the Shepard Druid with Ritual Caster: Wizard feat (closest to the concept you are looking for IMHO), Lore Bard cherry picking Druid and cleric spells with magical secrets, Fey, Undying, or Celestial Patron Tomelock, multiclassing Wizard (Conjurer)/Druid(Shepard) (this works way better then you'd think it would), and Light Domain Cleric.
 

I'm thinking of a Witch/Shaman class that can use a mix of arcane and divine spells. I don't what the player to do that using multi-classing. I prefer making a class from the ground up. I might have been reading to many old Dragon Magazines lately... :)
1) I'm sure most people are aware of this, but "mix of arcane/divine spells" is meaningless mechanically. Spells are defined purely by what spell lists they're included in.

2) I've seen several good Shaman/Witch type classes online, I'm sure some googling could find something appropriate.
 

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