D&D 5E [5e] Are classes too generic? (Read the OP before answering)

[NotAYakk]

A shaman who uses a mix of arcane and divine spells is a mechanical description.

What is the class's story?

Is it "I can do everything and everyone else is second fiddle"? No, that class isn't in 5e on purpose.

Is it "nature priest"? Well druid and clerics both have nature themes.

 

[thealmightyn]

I find designing homebrew classes to be an interesting exercise. It can be really fun, but it's a major pain in the butt to get the balance right... it's way too easy to suddenly make a homebrew class super OP. If you're gonna do it, I'd highly recommend leveraging the expertise at the Unearthed Arcana Reddit channel... the people there are great at finding balance issues.

 

[thealmightyn]

I'm thinking of a Witch/Shaman class that can use a mix of arcane and divine spells. I don't what the player to do that using multi-classing.

I imagine that it's gotta be more than just "can cast Cleric and Wizard spells" since that would be pretty easy to do through multi-classing.

I've definitely seen some decent Shaman-style homebrew classes on various online sources, but for the most part they're not Cleric/Wizard spell casters... in fact, a lot of them seem to be attempts to pull in other edition (or even other game like Pathfinder) Shaman classes that are mechanically very similar to Warlocks...?

But, yeah, just start thinking at a high level around what you want this class to be able to do. Think of some cool features and then start thinking hard about how powerful each of those features is, how they compare to features offered to other classes at similar levels to make sure they align somewhat well, think about how the class casts spells, etc.

www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/73sfp1/class_design_101_a_fundamental_guide_to_5th

This is a great read on how to approach homebrew class design, and it even comes with some useful Homebrewery templates at the end for null casters, full casters, half casters, third casters, and pact casters to give you a nice outline around the feature structure.

Apologies in advance if we're not allowed to post Reddit URLs in here.

 

[GlassJaw]

I like the shaman archetype, and it's one that 5E is somewhat missing.

I would start with the druid and replace wild shape with something: you could merge the cleric's Nature's domain or maybe use the Circle of the Stars from the recent UA. I would even let a player replace wild shape and give them some abilities from Wizard's Divination school. Lots of options depending on how the player views their character.

After that, tweak the spell list. Again, start with an existing list (like the druid) and tweak it a little at a time.

 

[Undrave]

The Sheppard Druid has a pretty sweet spirit companion.

You could always home-brew a Warlock patron with its own spell list if you wish.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I have a very good campaign idea but looking at the class list (including 3rd level archetypes) I find that none of them would fit the concept. Don't get me wrong D&D classes are great and they work well within a certain style of play that I've enjoyed a lot over the decades. But this time I can't find what I'm looking for.

Seems like I have to design my own 5e classes. Have you done that with 5e? How did you go about it?

I think what you're describing is actually that the 5E classes are insufficiently generic, not "too generic". Plenty of other games have layouts more like "Fight person, Magic person, Skills person" as their classes. In such a case you'd pick Magic person and you'd be on your way. But the D&D classes aren't that generic - that's the issue here. They're too specific and thus don't cover the style of character you want, at least not to you. If there was already a Witch or Shaman subclass for some other class, you'd probably not be making this thread.

That said, I suspect Druid reflavoured is really all you need. There's just about nothing about a Druid that isn't Shaman/Witch-ish. Just pick something like Shepard Druid. If you feel there's a lack of hexes, maybe just add them to the spell list.

The other major approach (as I suspect you've rejected Warlock for it's mechanical specificity) is Sorcerer. You'd probably want a new subclass there, but that'd be a hell of a lot easier to handle, and mechanically safer than attempting to design a class from scratch. Designing from scratch, even with a lot of skill and experience, often ends up with a drastically underpowered or overpowered character (more often the former, in my experience), as we can see with third-party products for D&D from experienced designers.

My suggested approach is thus either "Re-flavour Druid" (even the shapeshifting is totally on-theme for a Witch/Shaman) or make a Sorcerer subclass.

 

[atanakar]

Some very good suggestions by some of you. Thank you! Keep em coming.

 

[Fenris-77]

If I were going to build this from the ground up I would probably use the Warlock chassis. Use the druid spell list and re-do the incantations to be more shaman-y. I feel that invocations as shamanic rituals and powers seems to fit at least my mental image of a shaman very well. The only real work there is changing the invocations, which is a much smaller job than building a whole new class. Even a completely bespoke spell list isn't a huge job if you wanted to go that route.

I'd probably even keep the patron idea. Different patrons would allow for some bespoke spell access and some specific flavor abilities. So a patron could be The Wild Wood, or the Spirits of the Mountains. Anyway, that's where I'd start.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I've designed classes, but only to add to the available pool.

For his current campaign, a friend of mine did exactly that. It's a very unusual D&D campaign. More Thundarr the Barbarian than Forgotten Realms. He simply ruled that the existing classes are unavailable (though a few NPCs in the setting use the PHB classes), and he wrote up new ones. He steered away from subclasses for most of them, but made up for it by having more overall classes than the PHB offers. Fair warning though, it was a lot of work for him, so be certain you want to go this route.

 

[Minigiant]

1} "mix of arcane and divine spells". Which divne spells? Which arcane spells?

2) Are you attempting to replicate a fantastic version of a real world shaman? The Cleric and Druid have inspirations based on various European priests.

3) The 5e classes aren't too generic. They are too focused. The classes cannot replicate many possible archetypes. Especially if for nonEuropean archetypes.