5E: Converting AD&D Monsters to Fifth Edition

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
ok buffed total damage to 111/rd by doing this (gets it to CR 21 on calculator):

Multiattack. Baalphegor attacks three times with her rapier, or twice with her rapier and once with twisting words

Rapier. Melee Weapon Attack: +12 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d6 + 5) force damage plus 22 (4d10) poison damage.
 

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Cleon

Legend
except she's supposed to be really smart, and probs physically weaker...? Minsc and Boos have Baalzebul and Mephistopheles...I was thinking someone more conniving like titvilus

Have given her twisting word and corrupting guidance from titivilus.

Her voice supposed to be scary when angry - could just give her frighttful word. But needs an attack - or can just do psychic damage with cutting voice each round?

Maybe emphasize condition-inflicting abilities over damage-causing ones?

Have her dominate, charm, befuddle et cetera opponents or have her mislead her enemies with words or illusions.

The main difficulty with that is it's hard to figure out what Challenge Rating they add up to.

Incidentally, the original 1E version of Glasya from Monster Manual II (1983) was a bit weaker than the 1E Baalphegor, for what that's worth.

Mephistopheles' squeeze had more HP, higher MR and slightly better spells (she had limited wish and chain lightning) and her summons was a bit better: 75% for 1-2 devils of any type [presumably non-unique, but that includes Pit Fiends!] while Glasya had 70% for 1-2 malebranche, who while greater devils are the lowest rung of that category.
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
added this as a bonus action:

Beguile. Baalphegor targets one creature she can see within 30 feet of them and who can see her. The target must make a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target uses their reaction, if available, to move up to their speed to a location chosen by Baalphegor, then either makes a melee attack against a target of Baalphegor’s choice or falls prone (Baalphegor’s choice). Creatures who can’t be charmed automatically succeed on this saving throw, and creatures who have advantage on saving throws against being charmed make this saving throw with advantage.

adding poisoned condition to rapier - also maybe giving it a name "Dark rapier"

pit fiends are more special in 5e than they were in 1e so leaving tehm off summons
 

Cleon

Legend
added this as a bonus action:

Beguile. Baalphegor targets one creature she can see within 30 feet of them and who can see her. The target must make a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target uses their reaction, if available, to move up to their speed to a location chosen by Baalphegor, then either makes a melee attack against a target of Baalphegor’s choice or falls prone (Baalphegor’s choice). Creatures who can’t be charmed automatically succeed on this saving throw, and creatures who have advantage on saving throws against being charmed make this saving throw with advantage.

The normal 5E approach would be to just have the attack cause the charmed condition.

I'd also make the range a bit longer than 30 feet. It might also be worth considering adding it as a Legendary Action option too.

The save DC is strangely low. Isn't this a Charisma-based ability like her Innate Spellcasting? With her stats, Baalphegor should have DC 24 with such abilities.

That's probably too far the other way though (i.e. too high).

The standard for a Challenge 21 creature is DC 20, so it shouldn't be too far off that number.

Glasya has CHA 26, giving her Cha-based spell-like DC 23, but that's also a bit too good for CR 21 too going by the Calculator. Indeed, I suspect that Glasya would be under-CRd if we ran her through that device.

So, something like:

Beguile #2. Baalphegor targets one creature she can see within ## feet of them and who can see her. The target must succeed at a DC 24 [?] Wisdom saving throw or become charmed until the start of the next turn. A charmed target uses their reaction, if available, to move up to their speed to a location chosen by Baalphegor, then either makes a melee attack against a target of Baalphegor’s choice or falls prone (Baalphegor’s choice).​

Another possibility is giving her a Beguiling version of Glasya's Confusion Aura as a defensive measure, like so:

Beguiling Aura. Any creature hostile to Baalphegor that starts its turn within 20 feet of her must make a DC 24 [?] Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is charmed for 1 round, as if affected by the charm monster spell. On a successful save, the creature is immune to Baalphegor's Beguiling Aura [and Beguile?] for the next 24 hours.​

Hmm, that "next 24 hours rule should probably apply to Beguile too:

Beguile #3. Baalphegor targets one creature she can see within ## feet of them and who can see her. The target must succeed at a DC 24 [?] Wisdom saving throw or become charmed until the start of the next turn. A charmed target uses their reaction, if available, to move up to their speed to a location chosen by Baalphegor, then either makes a melee attack against a target of Baalphegor’s choice or falls prone (Baalphegor’s choice). On a successful save, the creature is immune to Baalphegor's Beguile [and Beguiling Aura?] for the next 24 hours.​

What do you think?
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
Okay - have gone with #3. On thinking about it, I like the DC24 save as it draws out PCs inspirations etc.

The reason I like this beguiling as (in gameplay) the player doesn't miss a round of action with their PC charmed, but instead can carry on as usual - Baalphegor just "borrows" a reaction and attack in legendary round. So less boring for gameplay.
 

Cleon

Legend
Okay - have gone with #3. On thinking about it, I like the DC24 save as it draws out PCs inspirations etc.

DC 24 still seems excessively high. The recommended saving throw DC for a Challenge 30 creature is 23 according to the table in the DMG / CR Calculator.

If it t'were me I'd bring it down to 22 or 23 by cutting 1-4 points off her Charisma.

She doesn't need a higher CHA bonus than Glasya does she?

Alternatively, it'd seem a bit more justified if her Challenge Rating were higher than Glasya. Like, CR 24 (as that's got a recommended save DC a point higher than CR 21).

However, it'd make more sense to me keeping the DC and CR a bit more modest and giving her a retinue of minions to absorb the inspirations.
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
One of the things I hated about 4e was the excessive homogenisation of all scores/rolls/bonuses/penalties. Variation is the spice of life (and the game) where certain creatures might have unexpectedly dangerous attacks or low/high ACs etc. As a compromise I'll cut a point off by reducing her CHA by 2....
 

Cleon

Legend
One of the things I hated about 4e was the excessive homogenisation of all scores/rolls/bonuses/penalties. Variation is the spice of life (and the game) where certain creatures might have unexpectedly dangerous attacks or low/high ACs etc. As a compromise I'll cut a point off by reducing her CHA by 2....

Quite happy with unexpectedly dangerous creatures, provided it's reflected in their Challenge Rating.

While I'd hardly consider myself a killer DM, you want to keep those PCs on their toes!

As a compromise I'll cut a point off by reducing her CHA by 2....

I'd be just as happy knocking a single point off to make it CHA 27, since that gives her a slightly more balanced number of odd and even stats (two odd, four even).
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
ok 27 it is - this is state of play now:
 

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Cleon

Legend
Come to think of it, I need to post a Baalphegor Working Draft here for the Enworld version.

Better do that now before I forget again…
 

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