5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

Cleon

Hero
Hmmm. Okay I take your point about nudging it downwards in an effort to align it near the vrock. Okay, so going with 2d8+6 gore, 2d10+6 and 1d8+6 tail.....?

I was thinking we could make the Gore 2d10 + 6 damage as well as the Stomp to honor the d10s used in the original's two attacks.

Once the Paralysis is factored in I suspect it'll come out to higher than CR 7 but we can cross that hurdle when we come to it.

Shall I update with 2d10+6 gore, 2d10+6 and 1d8+6 tail?

The trunk is a bit of a special case, as the original was a "pick up and toss" attack that did unspecified (but doubled) falling damage.

So I'm thinking that if it hits an opponent of Large size or smaller it tries to scoop them up and hurl them, but if it's larger than that it can only try to trip them up. I'm thinking we might allow the target to use either DEX or STR on their saving throw, whichever is best for them.

I'd have it do a bit more than 1d6 falling damage though. Maybe 2d6 as the original did "double" a normal fall? That matches a 20 foot vertical fall, suggesting it can hurl a creature further away than the 3d6 feet we've got listed. Maybe make it 4d6+6 feet for an average of 20?
 

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Cleon

Hero
(a) yes - 2d10+6 gore, 2d10+6 and 1d8+6 tail is fine.
(b) yeah 20 (4d6+6) ft for 2d6 damage - DC 18 STR or DEX to avoid

Okay, does the following look OK to you?

Gore. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) piercing damage.​
Stomp. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature that must be prone or Medium size or smaller. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) bludgeoning damage.​
Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft. [?], one target. Hit: 10 (1d8 + 6) piercing damage.​
Trunk. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 10 ft. [?], one target. Hit: No damage on hit, but target must make a DC Dexterity or Strength saving throw (target's choice). The target takes 3 (1d6) bludgeoning damage on a successful save, but on a failed save the target suffers the following:​
 If the target is Large size or smaller, they are scooped up and hurled a distance of up to 20 ft. (4d6+4), or 10 ft (2d6 + 3) for a Large creature. The gurgotch can hurl the target in any direction and may throw them to land a shorter distance away than the listed maximum range if it desires. When the target hits the ground it takes 7 (2d6) falling (bludgeoning) damage and lands prone. If the gurgotch hurls its victim over a cliff or into a pit that also causes falling damage, the target takes whichever falling damage rolls higher (do not add together the trunk's 2d6 damage to the cliff or pit's falling damage).​
 If the target is Huge size or bigger, the trunk sweeps their legs and slams them into the ground, the target takes 7 (2d6) falling (bludgeoning) damage and falls prone.​

I'm not 100% decided on the Reach of the Trunk and Tail attacks, especially the Tail. Basically I kept dithered between the 10 ft. of the Gore or the 5 ft. of the Stomp and eventually settled on 10 ft. for the Trunk (as its nose is about as long as its tusks) and 5 ft. for the Tail (as it needs to reach around and the Gurgotch presumably can't aim directly behind it very effectively since its butt would be in the way).

I would be OK giving its tail reach 10 ft. if you prefer.

So, any preferences?
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
Happy with this - had come to same conclusions so looks like t his now
 

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Cleon

Hero

Upon updating, the "do not add together the trunk's 2d6 damage to the cliff or pit's falling damage" looks slightly clunky, I'm inclined to change it to either:
  • Trunk #2. (do not add the trunk's 2d6 falling damage to other falling damage.)
  • Trunk #3. (do not add together the trunk's 2d6 damage and other falling damage.)
Which do you prefer?
 

Cleon

Hero
Trunk. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 10 ft. [?], one target. Hit: No damage on hit, but target must make a DC Dexterity or Strength saving throw (target's choice). The target takes 3 (1d6) bludgeoning damage on a successful save, but on a failed save the target suffers the following:

Oops! Forgot to include a number for the Trunk's save DC!

I'm OK with the DC 18 of your previous drafts.

Updating the Gurgotch.
 


Cleon

Hero
Ok go with Trunk #2. Looks good thus far/all other changes/corrections incorporated

Updating the Gurgotch.

So that just leaves the Breath Weapon, for which the main questions are:

(a) What area should it cover? A cone like many dragon's breath? An ##-foot-radius sphere like a stinking cloud spell?
(b) How do we represent the "paralyzed from the neck down" effect? It's not regular paralysis as the victim should be able to look around themselves, speak, and take actions that only require them to "use their head" (literally).
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
Updating the Gurgotch.

So that just leaves the Breath Weapon, for which the main questions are:

(a) What area should it cover? A cone like many dragon's breath? An ##-foot-radius sphere like a stinking cloud spell?
(b) How do we represent the "paralyzed from the neck down" effect? It's not regular paralysis as the victim should be able to look around themselves, speak, and take actions that only require them to "use their head" (literally).
So the (b) could be equivalent to restrained or grappled . Boils down to how much importance there is to shoehorning it to an existing condition or improvising. Alternate would be like paralyzed but can cast spells with verbal components and talk.
(a) The original was just on one creature in front of it, but that seems a bit silly for a huge creature to parp out such a tiny weapon. So maybe is better as a cone - thinking as it shoots out of its snout. So like a hell hound maybe.
 

Cleon

Hero
So the (b) could be equivalent to restrained or grappled . Boils down to how much importance there is to shoehorning it to an existing condition or improvising. Alternate would be like paralyzed but can cast spells with verbal components and talk.

Neither restrained or grappled seem right since the target can still take any kind of action except move, although they have disadvantage on attack actions in the case of restrained.

I'm more inclined to make it a new condition based on paralysed. The medical term for paralysis that affects the limbs but not the head is tetraplegia, so maybe we could call it that?

As for the effects, how about "the creature can't take actions or reactions requiring their body or limbs, but may speak and perform actions that only involve their head or neck, such as verbal-only spells and breath weapons. The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws and attack rolls against the creature have advantage."

What are we doing about the original breath weapon causing permanent loss of Dex, Str and Con? You've got it causing Exhaustion with a Con Save in the current draft, but there is precedent for ability draining attacks in 5E with the Shadow and the like:

5E SRD said:
Strength Drain: Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d6 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target's Strength score is reduced by 1d4. The target dies if this reduces its Strength to 0. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest. If a non-evil humanoid dies from this attack, a new shadow rises from the corpse 1d4 hours later.

So interpreting the Gurgotch's attack into that form the "damage" would be something along the lines of:

"…the target's Dexterity score is reduced by #d#, its Constitution score is reduced by #d# and its Strength score is reduced by #d#. The target is paralysed for 1 hour? if this reduces its Dexterity or Strength to 0 and dies if this reduces their Constitution to 0, otherwise it must succeed at a DC ## Constitution saving throw or become paraplegic for #d# minutes."​

Having it do three sorts of ability damage seems excessive, so I was thinking we could only have it affect one ability (Dexterity) or two (probably Strength and Dexterity) to reflect its paralytic affect. The latter can be achieved by snipping out the red text from the above.

I'm not keen on making the ability damage Permanent like the original - that's way too nasty for standard 5E. Maybe allow it to return with short or long rests? Perhaps with Con saves to recover a point or #d# points with a short rest and the usual full heal for a long rest?

(a) The original was just on one creature in front of it, but that seems a bit silly for a huge creature to parp out such a tiny weapon. So maybe is better as a cone - thinking as it shoots out of its snout. So like a hell hound maybe.

The original text says "it exhales a noxious gas which acts on the central nervous system of a victim. All caught in the cloud must ‘save against constitution’ or lose all conscious muscular control from the neck downwards (in effect, they are paralysed)" so it's a cloud that can affect more than one creature per breath. It wouldn't have the "All" if it only breathed on one creature in front of it.

The Comments by Fiend Factory editor Don Turnbull in White Dwarf #14 points that out, asking "What range and area of effect has the breath weapon?"
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
(a) tetraplegic (adjective) "the creature can't take actions or reactions requiring their body or limbs, but may speak and perform actions that only involve their head or neck, such as verbal-only spells and breath weapons. The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws and attack rolls against the creature have advantage." - yeah sounds ok.

(b) Agree permanent problematic - how about 1d4 STR and 1d4 DEX loss, indefinite until fixed by greater restoration

(c) okay then...15 foot cone? 30 foot cone?
 

Cleon

Hero
(a) tetraplegic (adjective) "the creature can't take actions or reactions requiring their body or limbs, but may speak and perform actions that only involve their head or neck, such as verbal-only spells and breath weapons. The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws and attack rolls against the creature have advantage." - yeah sounds ok.

(b) Agree permanent problematic - how about 1d4 STR and 1d4 DEX loss, indefinite until fixed by greater restoration

I was thinking more "comes back after after a while" rather than indefinite.

The original did twice as much DEX damage than STR/CON (4 vs 2) so I we could have the Dexterity damage be higher to represent that, although 1d4 apiece is OK.

Hmm, maybe have it 1d3 STR and 2d3 DEX? Or 1d4 STR and 1d4+2 DEX?

(c) okay then...15 foot cone? 30 foot cone?

Well if it's a "cloud" I was fancying a 20-foot-radius-sphere like the stinking cloud or cloudkill spells that the Gurgotch puffs out next to itself.

Or around itself if it fancies.

I'm presuming 'gotches are immune to this breath weapon, so the Demon Elephant can surround itself with its own noxious fumes without risk to itself.
 




Cleon

Hero
take yer time - we have melded it into a thing anyway...

Updating the Gurgotch.

I added:

Breath Weapon (Recharge 6). The gurgotch exhales a 20-foot-radius cloud of a noxious gas centered on a point within 20 feet The cloud spreads around corners. Gurgotches can center the gas cloud on themselves and are immune to its effects. Each creature within the cloud has its Dexterity score reduced by 1d6 and its Strength score reduced by 1d3 and must succeed at a DC 17 Constitution saving throw against poison or become tetraplegic (see below) for 1 minute. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending its tetraplegia on a success. If the neurotoxin reduces the target's Strength or Dexterity to 0 it is paralysed for 1 hour [?]. The reduction of Strength and Dexterity lasts until the target finishes a long rest or receives a greater restoration spell.

New Condition: Tetraplegia. Tetraplegia is a form of paralysis that affects every part of a creature below their neck but leaves them able to talk and move their head. The creature can't take actions or reactions requiring their body or limbs, but may speak and perform actions that only involve their head or neck, such as verbal-only spells and breath weapons. The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws and attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
 

Cleon

Hero
Breath Weapon (Recharge 6). The gurgotch exhales a 20-foot-radius cloud of a noxious gas centered on a point within 20 feet The cloud spreads around corners. Gurgotches can center the gas cloud on themselves and are immune to its effects. Each creature within the cloud has its Dexterity score reduced by 1d6 and its Strength score reduced by 1d3 and must succeed at a DC 17 Constitution saving throw against poison or become tetraplegic (see below) for 1 minute. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending its tetraplegia on a success. If the neurotoxin reduces the target's Strength or Dexterity to 0 it is paralysed for 1 hour [?]. The reduction of Strength and Dexterity lasts until the target finishes a long rest or receives a greater restoration spell.

Okay, I thought it worked better with Recharge 6 like a Vrock's Spore Cloud rather than Recharge 5-6. That way it'll likely only use it once per fight rather than multiple times. Unless there's a herd of the beasties!

Also, I'm thinking of changing the duration of the paralysis. How about either of the following.

Option #1: If the neurotoxin reduces the target's Strength or Dexterity to 0 it is paralysed as long as their Strength and Dexterity scores are reduced. The reduction and paralysis lasts until the target finishes a long rest or receives a greater restoration spell.

Option #2: If the neurotoxin reduces the target's Strength or Dexterity to 0 it is paralysed as long as their Strength and Dexterity scores are reduced. Finishing a long rest or receiving a greater restoration spell ends the reduction, a short rest or lesser restoration removes 1 point of Strength reduction and 1 point of Dexterity reduction.

Any thoughts?
 



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