Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Yep - and agree on 10ft radius
5E: Fifth Edition Monster Variants Inspired by Fourth Edition Sources
- Thread starter Cleon
- Start date
Cleon
Legend
Updating the Derro Chaos Savant.
How's this for the linked bonus action:
Bonus Actions
Dance of Madness #1 The chaos savant targets a creature crazed by its Window to Madness within ## feet. Each creature in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on that target must succeed at a DC 15 Wisdom or Charisma saving throw (creature's choice) or become dancing mad (see above) until the start of its next turn.
Dance of Madness #2 The chaos savant targets a creature crazed by its Window to Madness within ## feet. Each creature in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on that target must succeed at a DC 15 Wisdom or Charisma saving throw (creature's choice) or take 5 (1d10) psychic damage and become dancing mad (see above) until the start of its next turn. [Derro are immune to psychic damage caused by Dance of Madness.?]
I'm inclined to have it reach further than Window to Madness so the derro savant can put this whammy on a victim who has danced outside the Window's 60 foot range but haven't decided on how far is
Maybe 90 feet or so?
I'm almost tempted to make the range something weird, like 95 or or 130 feet, just to be kwazilee khaotiq!
The #1 version is basically the same as the 4E version while the #2 version adds some psychic damage so it's a bit more harmful.
Undecided on whether derro should be immune to Dance #2's psychic damage or not. The 4E original affected derro the same as nonderro but did no damage.
Also wondered about having the targets be crazed AND dancing mad, as in the following (crazed amendments in magenta, undecided damage in red):
Dance of Madness #3. The chaos savant targets a creature within ### feet that is crazed by one of its Madness attacks. Each creature in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on that target must succeed at a DC 15 Wisdom or Charisma saving throw (creature's choice) or [take 5 (1d10) psychic damage and?] become crazed and dancing mad (see above) until the start of its next turn. [Derro are immune to psychic damage caused by Dance of Madness.?]
Do you like any of the above?
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
(incidentally I went with Arcana +9)
Maybe do #3 (range 130 ft) - yes to 1d10 damage and yes to derro immunity to damage
Maybe do #3 (range 130 ft) - yes to 1d10 damage and yes to derro immunity to damage
Cleon
Legend
Works for me.
I eyeball that'd make it around Challenge 7 now.
Updating the Derro Chaos Savant.
You were OK with giving it WIS 7 weren't you? I'm going to green that out unless you nay-say it.
The only other idea I had was whether there were any tweaks or additions to the Innate Spellcasting.
I could see us adding some information-gathering spells, since a Savant is supposedly someone very learned (at least if we use the original definition) and so would benefit from some means of finding out things.
So maybe add identify or clairvoyance to the spell possibilities?
That said, the original AD&D version of the Derro Savant didn't have much in the way of divination spells, only having comprehend languages and read magic.
Here's the lowdown:
Monstrous Manual said:
The spell comprehend languages still exists in 5E but read magic has become extinct.
You've given the derro chaos savant five spells (2/day invisibility, sleep, spider climb and 1/day dimension door, slow) while the MC version averages 7-8.
That's fine, since most of its Actions are either spell attacks or equivalent to spells, plus we're basing it on the 4E version that doesn't use spells.
Still, if there's any of those Savant spells up there you REALLY like the look off we could add them in.
At the moment, I'd just add comprehend languages to its At-Will spells and call it a day:
Innate Spellcasting. The derro chaos savant's spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 15). The chaos savant can innately cast the following spells, requiring only verbal components:
- At will: comprehend languages, mage hand, message, prestidigitation
- 2/day each: invisibility, sleep, spider climb
- 1/day each: dimension door, slow
However, the official 5E Derro Savant only has Stealth like a normal Derro while the 4E Savant only has Arcana, so I think adding yet more skills might be gilding the lily.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
agreed on all points - added comprehend languages and identify (latter as equivalent of old-school read magic) at will (I mean, it is a savant after all!)
If I put these parameters into a CR calculator I get CR...5?? Missing something I think
https://5e.tools/crcalculator.html#...8,14,false,0,false,0,mf-magic-resistance:true
If I put these parameters into a CR calculator I get CR...5?? Missing something I think
https://5e.tools/crcalculator.html#...8,14,false,0,false,0,mf-magic-resistance:true
Cleon
Legend
Do you prefer the identify to be at-will or X/day?
I'll temp it in as at-will in the Enworld draft.
Dang, I used a higher damage for the Madness powers in the Calculator (since the original did 3d6 as as area effect rather than 1d10) and had "Saves 3-4" set for some reason, which pumped up the DPR.
Let's see…
AC 16
HD 18d6+36
Damage 45
Over three rounds, I assume it uses something like:
two uses of Multiattack (42 damage per round = 84 total)
one use of Window of Madness (10.5 to target plus area-effect 1d10, will count it as 16)
two uses of Dance of Madness (11 per round as it's an area-effect 1d10 = 22 total)
one use of Strength of Madness (adds 13½ damage to a Multiattack)
=>135½ total damage, so average for each round is 45.166.
Monster Feature Magic Resistance
That comes out to Challenge 5 (Offensive 6, Defensive 4) but it makes no allowance for its multiple methods of inflicting negative conditions. Its powers can briefly attack-disadvantage, stun, poison, craze et cetera plus it has the spells slow and sleep, both of which can be pretty nasty.
My gut tells me those additional features are worth enough to bump it up to Challenge 6, but I'll leave in Challenge 5 as a possibility until we decide the issue.
Updating the Derro Chaos Savant.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Hmmm...identify maybe a bit OP as a cantrip? On thinking about it, maybe 2/day is more balanced.
Agree about nudging to lvl 6 based on negative effects of attacks (which aren't shoehorned into current calculation).
Agree about nudging to lvl 6 based on negative effects of attacks (which aren't shoehorned into current calculation).
Cleon
Legend
Well identify is a ritual spell in 5E so anyone with ritual spellcasting can cast it at-will since rituals don't use up spell slots.
It just takes 11 minutes instead of 1 minute.
Also, it doesn't increase the savant's power in combat like, say, an at-will sleep or cure wounds spell would.
How about using that as a solution: "At-will: identify (ritual spellcasting only)"?
Agreed.
Updating the Derro Chaos Savant.
Ready to start on the Description?
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Yes/done and yes
Cleon
Legend
How's this?
A chaos savant is a derro with a deep insight into arcane magic, the occult, chaos, madness and the Far Plane. They understand secrets no rational mind would care to know. A chaos savant dresses and acts bizarrely even by the eccentric standards of the derro. Each chaos savant always carries an arcane implement fitted with strange contraptions of their own design called a Chaos Staff. This device most often resemble a staff, rod or cudgel, but may be crafted into almost any shape that is easily portable and sturdy enough to be swung as a weapon.
Derro savants are revered for their insights and advice and have a highly influential role in their society. While it typically takes half a century of study to become a savant, some youthful or middle-aged derro become chaos savants after a period of insane revelation.
No need to make it complicated.
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