D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

[Sithlord]

Heh, I think it is the other way around.

"Psionics" is just what technological people call magic.

Socalled "primitive people" (a highly problematic term), namely "animists", are well aware of the power of ones own mind. The power of a mind is a central sacred concept. Animists likewise are aware that even rocks and trees have minds and psionic power.

I love creating spells based on animism and pantheism. As well as using idols.

 

[cbwjm]

If I was going to run a game of dark sun now, I'd probably give everyone a discipline from the mystic class (maybe not all are selectable, I'd have to check) and some psi points as they level to represent their wild talent. Might even include the mystic but limit which subclasses are allowable, whichever is closest to a telepath (awakened I think it was). I think that would be fine for me for allowing psionics in dark sun as a separate power source.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

It's not psionic as it's very explicitly a sorcerer class and sorcerers are arcane. Like the wizard that uses magic to access and merge with psionic power, the Aberrant Mind uses psionic power to access it's magic. They're both hybrids, not psionic classes/subclasses.

The class is psionic or has psionic powers for the majority of the official origins. That doesn't mean its spells can't be dispelled, counterspelled etc by other magics. You could definitely also pick the far-realm tentacle origin, or make up your own, which doesn't talk about psychic/psionic powers.
Its like Monks: They explicitly use magic (Ki), even though only one of their abilities stops working in an anti-magic field and could be dispelled.

At some point the various different definitions of "reality-warping effects brought about by supernatural means" start to cause issues when they clash with the actual rules, which have a definition of "magic" that not all 'magic' fits into.

 

[Maxperson]

The class is psionic or has psionic powers for the majority of the official origins. That doesn't mean its spells can't be dispelled, counterspelled etc by other magics. You could definitely also pick the far-realm tentacle origin, or make up your own, which doesn't talk about psychic/psionic powers.
Its like Monks: They explicitly use magic (Ki), even though only one of their abilities stops working in an anti-magic field and could be dispelled.

At some point the various different definitions of "reality-warping effects brought about by supernatural means" start to cause issues when they clash with the actual rules, which have a definition of "magic" that not all 'magic' fits into.

It has psionic powers. They've said that these subclasses are not psionic. The Aberrant Mind has only a small handful of psionic spells and points to use to make things psionic. It's just the Sorcerer version of the Wizard variant from the UA. The primary power source is arcane, and they have the ability to tap psionic energy to modify that primary source.

 

[SkidAce]

Whenever a debate starts about whether psionics is magic, and degenerates into "your wrong and here's why" quotes, the thread should spontaneously combust, bust into flames, and disappear, leaving nothing but smoke forming the letters "let people decide for themselves what they like and why its important".

 

[Maxperson]

Whenever a debate starts about whether psionics is magic, and degenerates into "your wrong and here's why" quotes, the thread should spontaneously combust, bust into flames, and disappear, leaving nothing but smoke forming the letters "let people decide for themselves what they like and why its important".

Only if you can prove to me whether they are magic or psionic flames.

 

[Steampunkette]

In Tashas 66, Sorcerer Aberrant Mind:
"
Psionic power ... can ... alter the world around you by using it to control the magical energy of the multiverse.

"

Tashas pretty much says: psionics manipulates the Weave to create magical effects.

One subclass Can doesn't mean all classes Only. Though that still tracks with the UA quote from the Designers about psionics being able to do Psionic stuff and also manipulate the weave to make magic happen sooo...

Between everything shown from the mystic through to Tasha's it boggles my mind you're still on about this.

 

[ChaosOS]

From a mechanical point of view, it's still safe to assume an official 5e take will have

• Psionics will still be subject to the same Counterspell and Dispel mechanics as everyone else.
• Psionics will still use the same framework of spells. Psions will be casting Dominate Person and Telekinesis at level 9, just like a wizard or sorcerer.

Does that mean psionics is magic? For differentiation purposes, the Psion may break from the standard spell slot progression, a la the Warlock. I've previously expressed I like the structure of Kibbles' Psion, with short-rest based points. But for mechanical purposes, the Psion is going to interact with the existing spellcasting system. Anything after that is dependent on the flair and flavor of your world. In Athas, it's flavorfully very different! In Eberron... Psionics is typically derived from Dal Quor or Xoriat, but that kind of external planar power isn't necessarily very different from a Druid that uses Lammania or Sorcerer touched by Fernia.

 

[tetrasodium]

Compare Wizard spell points that recharge per long rest versus Warlock spell points that recharge per short rest.

The Wizard, Bard, Cleric, Druid, and Sorcerer all share the same Spellcasting table for a fullcaster. So when I refer to "Wizard" the same is true for all fullcasters generally.

Both Wizard and Warlock get the same number of cantrips at the same time. Also both access the highest slots 6 to 9, at the same time. Namely: slot 6 at level 11, S7 at L13, S8 at L15, and S9 at L17. (The Wizard gets an additional S6 and S7 at levels 19 and 20, but I am less concerned about these, since a nice capstone can make up for them.)

Of concern are the spells of slots 1 to 5.

Both the Wizard and the Warlock are fullcasters, so their spellcasting abilities need to be comparable, even if one is refreshing per long rest and the other is refreshing per short rest.

It turns out, that the Warlock is especially insufficient at spellcasting around levels 8 to 10. Later, it gets better again, but the mid-tier is especially painful for the Warlock.

For both Wizard and Warlock, each spell slot is counted as being worth a number of points equal to its slot level + 1.

Look at level 10 for both classes, Wizard and Warlock. The Wizard has about 4.667 times more spell points than the Warlock does. In other words, the Warlock would need to have almost four short rests in the same day to remain comparable to a fullcaster. This disparity feels unacceptable. I dont want this situation for a Psion that uses a Warlock chassis. I want the Psion to be a fullcaster.

L	WIZARD spell points for slots 1 to 5 per Long Rest	WARLOCK spell points for slots 1 to 5 per Short Rest	Ratio
L1	4	2	2
L2	6	4	1.5
L3	14	6	2.333
L4	17	6	2.833
L5	25	8	3.125
L6	29	8	3.625
L7	34	10	3.4
L8	39	10	3.9
L9	50	12	4.167
L10	56	12	4.667
L11	56	18	3.111
L12	56	18	3.111
L13	56	18	3.111
L14	56	18	3.111
L15	56	18	3.111
16	56	18	3.111
17	56	24	2.333
18	62	24	2.583
19	62	24	2.583
20	62	24	2.583

In sum, the Warlock needs more spell points, especially levels 9 and 10, but also levels 6 to 8 require attention.

The number of short rests that characters can enjoy each day, is campaign dependent. Players at one table will have different experiences from players at an other table.

I assume it is fair to expect one, probably two short rests. If so, then the ratio of Wizard spell points to Warlock spell points should be roughly about 3 times more.



Therefore, the Psion will gain three spell slots sooner, at level 8, instead of at level 11. The tweak increases the number of spell points available during the levels when the Psion needs them most.



PSION

L	Number of Slots per Short Rest	Slot Level	Equivalent spell points per Short Rest	Cantrip At-Will	Invocation At-Will	Arcanum each per Long Rest
L1	1	S1	2	2
L2	2	S1	4	2	2
L3	2	S2	6	2
L4	2	S2	6	3
L5	2	S3	8	3	3
L6	2	S3	8	3
L7	2	S4	10	3	4
L8	3	S4	15	3
L9	3	S5	18	3	5
L10	3	S5	18	4
L11	3	S5	18	4		S6
L12	3	S5	18	4	6
L13	3	S5	18	4		S7
L14	3	S5	18	4
L15	3	S5	18	4	7	S8
L16	3	S5	18	4
L17	4	S5	24	4		S9
L18	4	S5	24	4	8
L19	4	S5	24	4
L20	4	S5	24	4

Wizard slot progression drops to basically one maybe two of each level around 5th or 6rg level slots. I'm on my phone and can't check it now, but it's a big problem for full casters because it makes the opportunity cost for a sorc to take 2levels of warlock for repelling agonizing blast basically just one spell slot at the gain of an at will 4th or so spell level equivalent.

Your warlock complaint can get in line behind fill casters with borked slot progression

 

[Aldarc]

That's because to you Psionics is the third type of Magic.

To me Magic is Magic and Psionics is Psionics. They're not just different sources of the "Same Power" they're different powers.

I do not mind Psionics being a form of magic. My preference for D&D Psionics, however, is that it's treated as its own pillar of magic, much in the same way that Arcane and Divine magic are and occasionally Primal magic, rather than simply being subsumed by the all-consuming Arcane magic. I admit that this distinction between magical sources means a little less in 5e D&D. My issue is when this particular point is conceded there are those who then make the argumentative leap that this means that the Wizard and Sorcerer should therefore suffice.

Secondly, my own preference would not be to key the Psion (and Psionics) to Intelligence or even to Charisma - dramatic pause for SHOCK! HORROR! - but, rather, to Wisdom, an attribute associated with (extra sensory) perception, intuition, insight, and mystic traditions (e.g., cleric, druid, monk).