D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

[ChaosOS]

With the release of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything several months ago, I've come to the conclusion that 5e has everything it needs to release Dark Sun.
The common refrain is we need a dedicated Psion class - Humbug, I say. The interesting part of Dark Sun psionics was always their widespread presence, not the Masters of the Way. Dedicated power users are far more interesting along the Defiler/Preserver axis, as that plays into the core themes of the world. Masters of the Way... Just kind of skip over that, especially without extremely restrictive effect lists for what psionics can do.
However, that doesn't mean I want psionics gone. Psionics are an integral part of the post-apocalyptic aesthetic, where even seemingly ordinary creatures can wield terrible powert. Psionic subclasses, like the Psi Warrior and Soulknife, translate that to discrete mechanics for the martial/psionic gladiator.
I also think Wild Talents are an important aspect of the setting. These can be implemented as boons, which have been successfully templated in both the Theros and Ravenloft setting books.

Now, this isn't to say I wouldn't enjoy a novel int based Psion class. But I just don't think it's necessary to publish a 5e Dark Sun.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It obviously does not. You'd need vastly expanded Psionic subclasses even without Psion, and ditching Psions in a book full of Psionics would feel pretty idiotic (which is as a good an argument as "humbug", I offer). Also, putting a Psion class in the book, like Artificer in Eberron, would be a very good way to move copies.

You'd be better of re-booting Dark Sun with a more novel approach rather than just trying to revisit the 2E or 4E visions of the setting, with the current stuff in 5E, which is what, three archetypes and a some feats.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You're both right.

WotC could easily publish a single Dark Sun campaign book that goes over all the top-level tropes, storypoints, land areas, and creatures just like they've already done for Theros, Eberron and so forth. For anyone who has never played Dark Sun before and is interested in a Mad Max-like D&D world to read and generate ideas from... that could all be done right now and probably many people would be fine with it if not outright love it.

But at the same time, that kind of book would not be able to really go deep into what Dark Sun really is. And the people who have played it in editions past and who have read/owned all the material before would easily be able to see there wasn't any real depth and that most of what made the Dark Sun setting what it was, was now missing. A much more prominent psionics system would be near the top of that list. So the people who love Dark Sun would rightly be pissed.

But this is really no different than the Eberron and Ravenloft fans out there. Both Eberron RftFW and VRGtR are very surface level introductions to their settings, and are missing a crap-ton of additional setting material that has been written for them in the past. I mean I own a dozen Eberron books from 3.5 that delve further into things like Dragonmarks, Faiths, Argonesson etc. that Rising could never hope to replicate. But I think that's actually the point. These settings book ARE nothing more than a "first taste"-- an introduction to those who have no idea what these settings are at all. And that the expectation is that if you like this book and this setting and you want more... you will go to places like DMs Guild and start buying all the older stuff already made and full of those details for the further depth of their settings. Because there's very little point in WotC just re-writing additional new books that is made up of all old material-- not when you can just use the old material as it is.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You're both right.

WotC could easily publish a single Dark Sun campaign book that goes over all the top-level tropes, storypoints, land areas, and creatures just like they've already done for Theros, Eberron and so forth. For anyone who has never played Dark Sun before and is interested in a Mad Max-like D&D world to read and generate ideas from... that could all be done right now and probably many people would be fine with it if not outright love it.

But at the same time, that kind of book would not be able to really go deep into what Dark Sun what it is. And the people who have played it in editions past and who have read/owned all the material before would easily be able to see there wasn't any real depth and that most of what made the Dark Sun setting what it was, was now missing. A much more prominent psionics system would be near the top of that list. So the people who love Dark Sun would rightly be pissed.

But this is really no different than the Eberron and Ravenloft fans out there. Both Eberron RftFW and VRGtR are very surface level introductions to their settings, and are missing a crap-ton of additional setting material that has been written for them in the past. I mean I own a dozen Eberron books from 3.5 that delve further into things like Dragonmarks, Faiths, Argonesson etc. that Rising could ever hope to replicate. But I think that's actually the point. These settings book ARE nothing more than a "first taste"-- an introduction to those who have no idea what these settings are at all. And that the expectation is that if you like this book and this setting and you want more... you will go to places like DMs Guild and start buying all the older stuff already made and full of those details for the further depth of their settings. Because there's very little point in WotC just re-writing additional new books that is made up of all old material-- not when you can just use the old material as it is.

What this analogy misses is that Ravenloft genuinely does have all the rules it needs (including those in Ravenloft), whereas DS would have to simply shrug and ignore a major aspect of the setting. A DS book would also probably need to be pretty spectacularly chock-full of unique rules that don't yet exist to do the justice Rising or Ravenloft do (and have a large bestiary). I'd also say Rising has a significant problem because of how badly the implemented the Dragonmarks are, because they didn't yet dare to do the Supernatural Gifts thing.

Dark Sun also has a significant problem in that much of the major lore for it involves significant rules-structures, which are not going to be possible to get for 5E simply by going on DMsguild, not initially anyway.

So whilst there are similarities to those situations, saying it's "just the same" is pretty inaccurate.

 

[Laurefindel]

5e has everything it needs as long as people are ok with spells-as-psi-powers.

I'd be easy to introduce a chart of psionic powers (spells) to roll on during character creation. The sorcerer is as good of a psion stand-in as any, although its spell list might be too "arcane" for many. The bard, once you put the fluff aside, has a very psion-y spell list actually, and its class features, in their effects when not in fluff, fits a psion class very well too. Besides, Dark Sun already has a history of re-writing the bard.

So whereas Eberron was about re-writing the socio-economical context of everything D&D while keeping the mechanics intact, Dark Sun could be about re-writing the fluff of everything D&D while keeping the mechanics intact (which is kind of what it did in 2e). And it would work. But I'm not convinced it's what people want.

 

[Laurefindel]

So whilst there are similarities to those situations, saying it's "just the same" is pretty inaccurate.

But "just the same" is already impossible by virtue of being a different edition with different mechanics. The best you can aim for is "close enough". The problem is that your "close enough" is probably different than mine, which is probably different than Defcon's, etc.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

But "just the same" is already impossible by virtue of being a different edition with different mechanics. The best you can aim for is "close enough". The problem is that your "close enough" is probably different than mine, which is probably different than Defcon's, etc.

You misunderstand, sorry if I'm being vague. I'm referring to the analogy re: the situations the players are in, not the rules.

 

[Retreater]

Gonna respectfully disagree on this. The psionics (as presented in Tasha's) are woefully inadequate. No rules about preservers/defilers. No rules about elemental clerics. There should be a subsystem to make survival a challenge - not just overcome completely with a ranger or Nature skill. Setting information, adventures, original monsters, etc., would all need updating.
Sure, a DM could do this, but I disagree with saying it's ready to go with the resources already available.

 

[dave2008]

Gonna respectfully disagree on this. The psionics (as presented in Tasha's) are woefully inadequate. No rules about preservers/defilers. No rules about elemental clerics. There should be a subsystem to make survival a challenge - not just overcome completely with a ranger or Nature skill. Setting information, adventures, original monsters, etc., would all need updating.
Sure, a DM could do this, but I disagree with saying it's ready to go with the resources already available.

I think the OP is saying it has everything needed when you add a setting book like ERftLW or VRGtR.

 

[toucanbuzz]

Mechanically, mostly. In my pre-TCE 5E conversion most pieces fit without much adjustment. Added rules for defiling, non-metal weapons, survival fixes, monster conversions, a 3rd party psionic book based off 3rd edition, tweaks to classes (like the Cleric) to make them fit, new races rules, and bans (unlike 4E, which tried to squeeze in every race and class).

I'll keep in a holding pattern for WOTC as I'm not a fan of pouring Frankenberries into a box of Lucky Charms and saying it's all the same because we've got cereal and marshmallows. Dark Sun was special for being something we'd never seen before with new toys, and great marketing to build hype.