[5e] (help wanted) Re-fluffing Spiritual Weapon

[Laurefindel]

Magic is by definition supernatural, I get that. But I'd like to have your suggestions and opinions about re-fluffing the spiritual weapon spell.

Mechanically speaking, I'm cool with the spell. What I don't like however, it's that spiritual weapon creates an entity that is not an entity; you are attacked by something you cannot fight back. There are a multitude of spells that do that, but for some reasons this one bugs me more than a flaming sphere for example.

It's not even clear to what extent the cleric is the obvious source of the magic. I'd imagine that many animals, or creatures with animal-level of intelligence, would try to attack or defend themselves against the spiritual weapon instead of the caster, just like they would try to sniff out an invisible opponent if they were attacks by something they couldn't see. Actually, I could see many opponents doing the same thing, not just animals. I'm voluntarily ignoring the fact that most animals would simply flee because most, if not all, flashy demonstrations of magic would have this effect.

Thus I'm asking; any ideas on how spiritual weapon could be re-imagined, ideally without changing the spell's mechanical effects themselves? The main goal is to make the caster the obvious threat; not the spell itself.

'findel

 

[not-so-newguy]

I always visualized it as an incorporeal hammer. Perhaps it’s invisible up until the moment the hammer strikes and disappears right after that moment.

ETA Perhaps the caster needs to make hand gestures mimicking the striking weapon

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

It requires a bonus action to attack, so to make it obvious, just require the cleric to make gestures to make it attack. Maybe a ghostly, ethereal string is attached to the weapon from the cleric.

- You could simply have it as a weapon that flashes into existence just as the weapon attacks and then disappears. More intelligent creatures could track it and, thus, dispel it or realize it's the caster controlling it. Or it's simply a divine strike. The caster points at the target and it manifests divine lightning or force that smites the enemy. It might look a bit more similar to the Witch Bolt spell.

- Many people I play with have it be an actual weapon that flies from the caster's hand. He or she is willing the real weapon to attack. It's easy for even a low intelligence creature to realize the caster is the source. When the spell breaks, the weapon falls to the ground(if concentration is broken) or flies back to the caster's hand(if they end it themselves).

- It could be a ghostly warrior - perhaps a legendary hero of the particular god, or an avatar of the god - wielding the weapon. Translucent and, obviously, unaffected by mortal attacks. So, one would not even attempt to attack it. The cleric is controlling it like a puppet.

or a ghostly version of the cleric himself is wielding the weapon. A wispy band of ethereal energy attaches the two together.

- the cleric makes a slicing motion and a visible blade arcs from his arm and shoots out towards the target.

- The sword is always hovering above the cleric but when he commands it to attack someone, a flame appears over their head (or some other symbol associated with their god), marking that person for their god's retribution. Every time the cleric uses his bonus action, the sword flashes out and strikes the target then returns to the caster. When you 'move' the weapon to a new target, you are just moving the 'symbol/mark' and not the sword itself.

 

[5ekyu]

The rules are pretty vague and leave it up to the gm in many cases as to the obvious nature of ongoing effects. Is taking (bonus) actions to direct spiritual weapons or flaming spheres obvious? Is it in obvious but something an Insight "intentions" vs deception csn tell? Is it impossible? Does whether or not concentration is involved a factor ?

For me, if there is a question, I would tend to allow wis/insight vs cha/deception (possibly casting ability/deception) as a valid check for "can I tell who is controlling the sphere/hammer.

I am pretty liberal with the descriptions of the "weapon" even allowing it to thematically seem more like a creature than a weapon as long as it's done for flavor not to draw misdirection about what it is.

 

[Laurefindel]

- You could simply have it as a weapon that flashes into existence just as the weapon attacks and then disappears.

- Many people I play with have it be an actual weapon that flies from the caster's hand. He or she is willing the real weapon to attack. It's easy for even a low intelligence creature to realize the caster is the source. When the spell breaks, the weapon falls to the ground(if concentration is broken) or flies back to the caster's hand(if they end it themselves).

- the cleric makes a slicing motion and a visible blade arcs from his arm and shoots out towards the target.

Yes, presently I'm leaning toward something similar, whereas the cleric's held weapon is "spectrally projected" to the targeted area as he/she swings it. I'm considering changing the component to VSM; the material component being a weapon or holy symbol held in hand, and giving each bonus action attack a reach of 60ft and forget about the fixed area with 20ft movement.

- It could be a ghostly warrior - perhaps a legendary hero of the particular god, or an avatar of the god - wielding the weapon. Translucent and, obviously, unaffected by mortal attacks. So, one would not even attempt to attack it. The cleric is controlling it like a puppet. Or a ghostly version of the cleric himself is wielding the weapon. A wispy band of ethereal energy attaches the two together.

I'm less inclined to go this way, mainly because I want to differentiate the "translucent and unaffected by mortals' attacks" effects from the "translucent and unaffected by mortals' attacks" creatures. I wouldn't want to trick my players into thinking that this is an undead that they need to dismiss, or waste spells to make their weapon deal magical/radiant/etheral damage in hopes of affecting it.

- The sword is always hovering above the cleric but when he commands it to attack someone, a flame appears over their head (or some other symbol associated with their god), marking that person for their god's retribution. Every time the cleric uses his bonus action, the sword flashes out and strikes the target then returns to the caster. When you 'move' the weapon to a new target, you are just moving the 'symbol/mark' and not the sword itself.

hehe, neon sign "CASTER HERE" (with arrow pointing down). When the bonus action is not used on the spell, the sign changes to "I'M WITH STUPID" (with an arrow pointing toward the party's barbarian)

 

[LordEntrails]

I envision in in the string way [MENTION=15882]TaranTheWanderer[/MENTION] mentions.

The haft or hilt of the weapon twines back in an ethereal mist to the caster. Perhaps they use it akin to a whip, some how grasping the wisps and flicking them at the opponent. Perhaps the weapon remains visible (preferred) or it dissipates after the strike but wisps remain evident of it's presence.

 

[5ekyu]

One thing i would add though, regarding this "Thus I'm asking; any ideas on how spiritual weapon could be re-imagined, ideally without changing the spell's mechanical effects themselves? The main goal is to make the caster the obvious threat; not the spell itself."

i would not do this for just spiritual weapon. it makes no sense to have this one spell house ruled to make its source obvious but leave others as "unknown" especially if the others are concentration effects where there is in fact an ongoing link between them that can be broken.

So, that means if someone is under say Shield of Faith's shimmering field there should be a string or whatever back to its caster too, IMO.

Otherwise this becomes "rule by it bugs me" which is pretty close to "arbitrary."

 

[LordEntrails]

I always assume that any ongoing effects that require concentration it is someone apparent who the caster is. Or at least I can't think right now of any that wouldn't be.

I mean, Shield of Faith, it surrounds the caster right?

Maybe not Bless. Though... It's a magical world, doesn't seem unlikely that anything after tier 1 wouldn't have some idea right?

Doesn't RAW say something about this? That all creatures are aware of effects on other creatures etc?

 

[aco175]

Spiritual Weapon does not carry concentration, it is only a bonus action to cast and a bonus to move and attack again for 1 minute. I kind of see it as a symbol of the deity and more intelligent monsters can see the caster wearing the same symbols. I can also see something where if it hits, then a pulse of power from the caster streaks out to the weapon to deal damage.

 

[Laurefindel]

One thing i would add though, regarding this "Thus I'm asking; any ideas on how spiritual weapon could be re-imagined, ideally without changing the spell's mechanical effects themselves? The main goal is to make the caster the obvious threat; not the spell itself."

i would not do this for just spiritual weapon. it makes no sense to have this one spell house ruled to make its source obvious but leave others as "unknown" especially if the others are concentration effects where there is in fact an ongoing link between them that can be broken.

So, that means if someone is under say Shield of Faith's shimmering field there should be a string or whatever back to its caster too, IMO.

Otherwise this becomes "rule by it bugs me" which is pretty close to "arbitrary."

Not quite.

A creature wouldn't be utterly confused by a shield of faith, and who is the caster behind that spell has a limited impact on its behaviour.

A creature getting confused by the spell, wasting attacks and actions on an immaterial effect because it doesn't (immediately) understand the nature of the spiritual weapon, or not being able to assess who the aggressor is, has a bigger impact on the combat. I don't want to play spiritual weapon as a misdirection spell - and I don't think it was designed to be used that way - but as a combat spell.

"Suddenly, you are attacked by an spectral-looking, slightly glowing animated, spear" can cause all kinds of reactions from players. It takes a certain mastery of D&D spells to immediately identify this as a spiritual weapon effect, and that the correct course of action is to ignore and outrun the spectral spear, and to zero-in on the cleric who cast it. An intelligent opponent might catch what's going on after one or two rounds or trials and observation, but only an opponent with a good grasp of magic or experience with clerical war magic would immediately know what's going on.

That's why I believe that an obvious connection between the caster and the spell is important in this case, unless we are ok with spiritual weapon being a good misdirection spell.

Otherwise, of course I created this thread because this particular situation bugged me. House rules are just that; attempts to fix things that bug us (whether they succeed at it without creating other bugs is debatable, I'll give you that).