D&D 5E 5e Hobgoblin stat block

[sidonunspa]

how to fight a hobgoblin in 5e (not using a battle map)

• step 1) Don't do it alone, two fighters walk in....
• step 2) declare that your fighting back to back and constantly switching targets, never attack the same targets twice, simulates the spinning around to keep them off your flanks
• step 3) look to your reasonable GM may agree to limit the martial advantage to one such attack instead of all of them.

win

 

[Thaumaturge]

[*]step 2) declare that your fighting back to back and constantly switching targets, never attack the same targets twice, simulates the spinning around to keep them off your flanks

No, no, no. Concentrate all attacks on one, immediately. Whichever one gets hit first needs to die quickly. 2 1st level PCs against 1 hobgoblin isn't so bad.

I, on the other hand, find it amusing to label things like this "issues" before the game is even released.

I think this is fine. It seems like the assumption is that a party of 1st level pcs will have a tough fight against hobgoblins, even when they outnumber the hobbos 2:1. That's about right imho.

Agreed.

And hobgoblins will scale very well for higher level encounters. A 5th level party isn't going to breeze through a squad of hobs. A 10th level party won't breeze through multiple squads. A fireball or two will clear guys out, but they'll be dishing out nice damage until the end.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Wolfskin]

My assumption is that during the in-house playtest this didn't emerge as an issue because playtesters were fighting smart. 4 or 5 L1 PCs against 2 hobs is certainly an easy match if -say- you play your cards sensibly.

Against reckless players, though, hobgoblins will be a though match in numbers IMO.

I'm personally fine with this, as I'm not a fan of cakewalk encounters.

 

[the Jester]

My assumption is that during the in-house playtest this didn't emerge as an issue because playtesters were fighting smart. 4 or 5 L1 PCs against 2 hobs is certainly an easy match if -say- you play your cards sensibly.

Against reckless players, though, hobgoblins will be a though match in numbers IMO.

Reckless pcs reap what they sow, in my opinion. A tough fight should reward smart play. Smart monsters should punish reckless attackers who don't use any strategy.

YMMV, all a matter of playstyle, etc etc.

 

[Agamon]

Hobgobbies are scary in groups. That's the awesome in the sauce.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Reckless pcs reap what they sow, in my opinion. A tough fight should reward smart play. Smart monsters should punish reckless attackers who don't use any strategy.

YMMV, all a matter of playstyle, etc etc.

A fight that is tough because humanoid monsters use a poorly explained and impossible-to-anticipate ability (which this is), though, is not something you can blame on the players. This isn't countered by using "any strategy", this has one real counter which only works if you can burn 'em down fast enough and there are few enough of them. You have correctly identified the counter - but as you saw, a DM, who KNOWS how the ability works, and is fairly intelligent, got precisely the wrong strategy! PCs won't even know how it works (unless the DM is VERY detailed in his explanation and gives the right idea).

Assuming PCs are reckless is itself feckless. < plays flute >

 

[the Jester]

A fight that is tough because humanoid monsters use a poorly explained and impossible-to-anticipate ability (which this is), though, is not something you can blame on the players.

Poorly-explained... I mean, I think the reasoning is fairly obvious. Hobgoblins work very well together and employ teamwork. I dunno, I don't really need an explanation for that one.

I'll grant you that the first time a group encounters hobgoblins, this ability may be a bit of a surprise, but I don't find this problematic, either. When the pcs first encounter any monster, they should be wary of surprises. I'd expect most initial encounters with any monster to be harder than the pcs expect until they realize what works and what doesn't.

This isn't countered by using "any strategy", this has one real counter which only works if you can burn 'em down fast enough and there are few enough of them.

Well, I totally disagree with you here.

Make it a ranged battle to keep the hobgoblins from closing in and dogpiling the party. Push them around once they do with martial maneuvers or thunderwave, so they have a harder time with applying their martial advantage. (My guess is that there will be a 'push' maneuver anyone can use, with battlemaster fighters having options to make it superior and harder to resist.) Use terrain to make it harder for them to swarm you. Etc. There are plenty of tactics that the party can adopt to improve their chances.

One of the great things that I learned from 4e was to set up my combats with interesting potential terrain effects and the like to make it spicy. Will I do that in every encounter? Of course not, I don't even do that now. But even something as simply as an alcove offers a "back into it and only one can approach me at a time" option.

 

[Lalato]

Concentrated attacking isn't a strategy? Hell, in most encounters that is the best strategy.

And what exactly is poorly worded? I'm confused by your confusion.

 

[FireLance]

So, how long do you think it will take before the first player of a fighter character asks to "learn to fight like a hobgoblin"?

Right before a player gets a punch in the face.

Luckily for my dainty knuckles and the faces of my players, my players understand how the game works.

Why? Assuming there is a basic level of consistency between how non-magical humanoids (such as hobgoblins and playable-race fighters) gain abilities, wouldn't it be both reasonable and possible for a fighter to pick up the hobgoblin's effective combat style?

 

[Agamon]

Why? Assuming there is a basic level of consistency between how non-magical humanoids (such as hobgoblins and playable-race fighters) gain abilities, wouldn't it be both reasonable and possible for a fighter to pick up the hobgoblin's effective combat style?

It's less about expectations and more about laziness. If the player hasn't read his list of class abilities and potential feats and needs me to answer a question he can find out by looking up his options himself, he deserves to bleed from the nose.