D&D 5E 5E Spells Per Day

[Jiggawatts]

I know it is unlikely that the spells per day table for mages, clerics, and druids will change at the point, but I'm not a fan of them, and here is why. The reasons are twofold, firstly, and honestly, is because I have been playing since 2E I am preconditioned to think that high level spellcasters should have more than they have. But secondly, and this is actually my major issue here, it seems to be a haphazard list that doesn't really follow any kind of pattern. Though I do agree that casters should probably have less spells per day than they have had in previous editions, I just think they went too far in the other direction. I would like to see something like this at 20th level:

1st: 4, 2nd: 4, 3rd: 4, 4th: 3, 5th: 3, 6th: 3, 7th: 2, 8th: 2, 9th: 2

This follows a "3 tiers of magic" pattern. Lowest tier gets 4 casting per day, middle tier gets 3, and upper tier gets 2.

Alternately if they wanted to keep the premise that 9th level spells are the closest a mortal can get to ULTIMATE COSMIC POWER(TM), and therefore a caster should only get a single casting per day, which I admit does seem flavorful, that would be cool too.

1st: 4, 2nd: 4, 3rd: 4, 4th: 3, 5th: 3, 6th: 3, 7th: 2, 8th: 2, 9th: 1

That is almost the exact same list, just removing one 9th level spell per day. This also follows a set pattern, there is 1 spell level that gets 1 spell per day, 2 spells levels that get 2, 3 spell levels that get 3, with 4 as the baseline.

Overall I really like a lot of what 5E has going on, and am looking forward to delving into it, but these spells per day tables have been nagging me.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't like quadratic wizards. I'm not a fan of low-level wizards having very few spells and high-level wizards having a tremendous number of powerful spells. I'm glad that 5e (and 4e, in a way) nerfed the amount of magic that a high-level caster has, while ensuring low-level casters always have something magical to do. So in other words, I'm fine with high-level casters having only a few spell slots, as long as at-will attack cantrips remain in the system.

There's not much of a pattern to slots that I can see either, but I like to think it's based on playtesting and not just a set of numbers. (Well, I like to think that, but 5e's lack of numerical balancing suggests the numbers really were just picked out of a hat. But I'm willing to think that the numbers are not necessarily ill-chosen.)

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Huh, you're right...no pattern! The 3e sorcerer (and sundry other classes) irked me for this reason too.

 

[samursus]

I think the lack of a pattern just irks the symmetricist (surely not a word) in all of us.

Personally, I expect WOTC put a LOT of thought and playtest data into the numbers they came up with.
The Linear/Quadratic issue was/is a major point of contention on the boards.

To the OP, have you play-tested and found the lesser amount of spells a problem?

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

Honestly, the different patterns of Ability Score Bonus/Feats irked my inner symmetricist more than the spell casting progression in the last version of the playtest that I saw. I'll get over it though.

If they had a nice space for 10th Level spells at 19th level, I think I would have been happier as well. I realize that nine levels of spells for all fullcasters is probably a sacred cow at this point. I am actually happy with higher level spells having only one slot given that the classes still get features, feats, or score buffs on the upper even levels where they don't get a new spell level slot.

 

[Li Shenron]

Though I do agree that casters should probably have less spells per day than they have had in previous editions, I just think they went too far in the other direction.

In combat, you are right.

Out of combat, do not forget rituals. While only a few spells are rituals, they don't count against the daily spells slots.

In fact, if you have the extra time, you should always cast a ritual spell as a ritual.

If they had a nice space for 10th Level spells at 19th level, I think I would have been happier as well. I realize that nine levels of spells for all fullcasters is probably a sacred cow at this point.

It's not so much a sacred cow, it's also that if you add one more level of spells, then you have to design a good number of new spells. When you have Wish at 9th level, it's not so easy to come up with interesting spells above that, so the tendency would be to just increase the parameters (more damage, longer durations, multiple targets...) which not only is not that interesting, but perhaps suggests it might be better instead to design a feat which grants a 10th level slot that can be filled with augmented versions of your lower level spells.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I played a lot of spellcasters in 3.x and they get really overpowered. The last cleric I played got to level 18 and had a spell for basically everything. Reducing the number of spells is probably a good idea. I didn't like the 4e spellcasters though. They have too little utility. 5e looks to come in right between 3e and 5e in power, which to me is the right place. Now, I don't know how well it works out before I have actually played it. I bet they haven't play tested high levels very much either, so I am nearly sure they will have "botched" the balance. Probably making the spellcasters a bit overpowered. Which is about right in my book.

tl;dr have to wait for final rules and playing high level characters. Looks ok on paper.

 

[Starfox]

3E has tenlevels of spells, they are just numbered 0 (zero) to 9 instead of 1 to 10.

 

[Blackwarder]

3E has tenlevels of spells, they are just numbered 0 (zero) to 9 instead of 1 to 10.

5e is the same, you got cantrips and than 1-9 levels of spells.

Warder

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I know it can't happen because "tradition" but I almost think the wizard would be better if you could prep x number of spells at level 1, and only had access to level 1 spells, then at level 5 when you access level 3 spells you still can only prep x, but some can be more powerful... by level 20 you could prep x+3-4 spells but all the way up to 10th level spells....

[sblock=example] say start level 1 at 3+int mod spells per day at level 6 this increases to 4+int mod, at level 12 this increases to 5+int mod and at 18 6+int mod.

starting at level 3 you can have 1 of your spells be 2nd level every level there after 1 more can be 2nd, at level 5 1 can be 3rd level and as before each level there after you can prep one more 3rd level... so on

at level 6 you can prep 4+int mod (so 5-9 depending on INT) 2 can be 3rd level upto 5 can be 2nd level and the rest have to be 1st level...

then the idea of short rest rechargeing lower level spells gives a reason to keep prepping them... say at level 6 you can x times per day recharge a 1st level spell...[/sblock]

It's not so much a sacred cow, it's also that if you add one more level of spells, then you have to design a good number of new spells. When you have Wish at 9th level, it's not so easy to come up with interesting spells above that, so the tendency would be to just increase the parameters (more damage, longer durations, multiple targets...) which not only is not that interesting, but perhaps suggests it might be better instead to design a feat which grants a 10th level slot that can be filled with augmented versions of your lower level spells.

yea, so we break the 9th level spells up... making wish the new 10th level spell