D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[Chaltab]

Not familiar with DragonBall, but doesn't Goku have supernatural abilities?

He does, but even his natural abilities as a martial artist surpass most D&D wizards.

Granted it's not entirely a fair comparison given that blowing up the moon was a very early feat in Dragon Ball. I'm just using it as an illustration of how power scaling in D&D could be different. If a high level fighter can move too fast for the wizard to perceive without some kind of magical sensory enhancement, for instance.

I'm not sure I want D&D to go down that road, at least not before epic levels, but it's worth discussing if only to know where to draw the lines.

 

[TwoSix]

The 4E Monk at least. Man I had a lot of fun with that one.

Even the A5E Adept and Laser Llama's Alternate Monk haven't quite had the same level of 'you're martial arts legend, you're Jet Li/Jackie Chan/JeeJa Yanin' as the 4E Monk.

Some of Laserllamas subclasses come pretty close for me.

 

[Lanefan]

IMO, new abilities and versatility equals more powerful. If I can turn into a sparrow and you can't, all else being equal I am more powerful. No amount of non-supernatural training will teach you to turn into a sparrow.

That's just it, though: all else shouldn't be equal. If I can turn into a sparrow, that has to come at cost of not being able to do something else; the obvious comparable here is that in a fight I can't hit things as hard or as often as you can.

 

[Minigiant]

It has never worked that way (except possibly in 4e). No fighter is ever as powerful as an archmage. A high level caster has hundreds of potential abilities and options a high level fighter will never touch. This is somewhat balanced by consistent damage and high hp, but realistically having magic is stronger than not having it. You need to ramp up the fighter's supernatural powers at higher levels to get around that.

And a high level barbarian has absolutely never been the Incredible Hulk, not even back in the 60s.

It never worked that way because....

designers and fans would not get over their biases to facilitate others.

Heres a funny thing.

A high level fighter doesn't actually have to be that supernatural.

Because

D&D heavily downplays the deadliness of a trained warrior and the gulf of threat a trained warrior with proper arms and armor is to a person isn't trained to fight. So if you actually accelerated their skill...

A high level fighter would be swinging for dozens of damage multiple times a turn.

 

[Micah Sweet]

He does, but even his natural abilities as a martial artist surpass most D&D wizards.

Granted it's not entirely a fair comparison given that blowing up the moon was a very early feat in Dragon Ball. I'm just using it as an illustration of how power scaling in D&D could be different. If a high level fighter can move too fast for the wizard to perceive without some kind of magical sensory enhancement, for instance.

I'm not sure I want D&D to go down that road, at least not before epic levels, but it's worth discussing if only to know where to draw the lines.

If a fighter can do that, they are either very high level, have supernatural abilities themselves, or both.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It never worked that way because....

designers and fans would not get over their biases to facilitate others.

Heres a funny thing.

A high level fighter doesn't actually have to be that supernatural.

Because

D&D heavily downplays the deadliness of a trained warrior and the gulf of threat a trained warrior with proper arms and armor is to a person isn't trained to fight. So if you actually accelerated their skill...

A high level fighter would be swinging for dozens of damage multiple times a turn.

I agree. Make fighting more realistic and dangerous, and then add magic!

 

[Minigiant]

You have invented Draw Steel!

I'd reinvented 4e and stretch it over more levels.

Draw Steel repackaged and reflavored and low to mid level level 4e

They do only if one wants balance at every level. That's not a priority for some; I'm fine with the long-term balance of warrior types being boss at low levels and mages becoming boss at high levels

There are more martial paths to power than wuxia.

Limited imagination and lack of desire to experiment with new options is why D&D takes more and more kludging as PCs level.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's just it, though: all else shouldn't be equal. If I can turn into a sparrow, that has to come at cost of not being able to do something else; the obvious comparable here is that in a fight I can't hit things as hard or as often as you can.

Sure. My point is that no amount of non-magical training can equal what you can do with magic.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There are more martial paths to power than wuxia.

Limited imagination and lack of desire to experiment with new options is why D&D takes more and more kludging as PCs level.

Cool! Any examples?

 

[Chaltab]

Some of Laserllamas subclasses come pretty close for me.

Possibly! My weapon loadout before the game converted from A5E to D&D kind of locked me into the Hurricane subclass and it kiiind of feels like something that was playtested at lower levels without considering how it scaled at high level.