7 Years of D&D Stories? And a "Big Reveal" Coming?

When asked what he was working on, WotC's Chris Perkins revealed a couple of juicy tidbits. They're not much, but they're certainly tantalizing. Initially, he said that "Our marketing team has a big reveal in the works", and followed that up separately with "Right now I'm working on the next seven years of D&D stories". What all that might mean is anybody's guess, but it sounds like there are plans for D&D stretching into the foreseeable future! Thanks to Barantor for the scoop!

 

[bmfrosty]

Remind me again, please, which side is full of hyperbole on this?

I was joking about the priority list that I work by. Did you think I was saying something else?

 

[Dire Bare]

Heh. Who should I believe? You or my lying eyes?

Paizo took the top spot while 4e was still a thing, well before the hiatus started, so speak for yourself when you speak about what we all knew.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm simply saying you are wrong. Heh. All IMO, of course.

D&D did slip below Paizo numbers as 4th edition WOUND DOWN into nothingness. 4E was on the way out, everybody knew it, not many were terribly sad about it, and Paizo took top spot and stayed there while very little was published for D&D. IMO, the wise amongst us knew that when the D&D machine roared back to life, Paizo would slip back into the 2nd spot.

It's not about hard work, product quality, or who "deserves" to be number one. It's like comparing Coca-Cola to Shasta Cola. I'm sure Shasta is a great company filled with hard-working folks who put out a cola many people like, but Coke is the big dog and it would take almost an act of god to change the situation. D&D is #1 in brand recognition and sales because the game is the industry originator and the name everybody recognizes. D&D is to roleplaying what Coke is to soda and Kleenex is to facial tissue.

Paizo deserves all of the sales and customer loyalty they have earned. Being #2 isn't a judgment or a booby-prize, it's just the way of things. Paizo IS an industry leader, but is not THE industry leader.

Hmm, which company right now actually has the most people making RPG material?

What's that got to do with anything? If you compare Paizo to Hasbro, Hasbro is bigger. If you compare Paizo to WotC, WotC is (probably) bigger. If you compare Paizo to the D&D team at WotC, Paizo is bigger. Who cares?

Bigger means you can put out more product, and Paizo does that. But it has jack squat to do with product quality, overall sales and brand recognition, and who "deserves" to be #1 (which is nobody).

 

[BryonD]

I was joking about the priority list that I work by. Did you think I was saying something else?

Yes I did.

Your comment "The priority list is god. All bow down to the priority list." seemed completely in line with numerous other the customers expect to be worshiped and are unreasonable and not worth having as customers.

I do hope you can see how I took it as parroting other comments.

If it was simply an inside joke, then I missed and I apologize.

 

[Dire Bare]

It's not just that. Paizo have spent years, and a great deal of effort, building a very strong relationship with their fans. Their designers make sure to be active on their website forums, they make sure to communicate things clearly and well in advance, and their customer support is the best I have ever encountered. I'm actually not a huge fan of the game (too complex for me these days), but I'm definitely a fan of the company.

Equally, it's not as simple as saying that WotC are "the Man", because if we look back to 2006 things were different. Yes, there were some complainers, but they tended to be easier to spot and easier to dismiss (Razz). But for the most part they were being recognised because they had a strong product line, they were communicating it well in advance, and the products they were releasing were generally very well received.

Paizo is a great company by all sorts of measures. Great product, great employees, and they do work very hard to insure the success of the flagship game, Pathfinder. I'm a fan too. They have earned my respect, fandom, and money. But they are still the underdog, still #2 to D&D. Still given a pass on "mistakes" (choices, really) that WotC doesn't.

WotC is a division within a larger company, and the D&D team an even smaller group within WotC. I have NEVER seen a year go by without folks complaining about how the "suits" or "bean counters" at Hasbro or even within WotC are destroying some part of the game. Sure, the level of vitriol rises and falls like the tide, but it is always very present on D&D forums and in FLGS across the nation.

My favorite example is during the launch of 4E. Many fans took the choices made during 4E's development as an attack on their lifestyle hobby. And when during the marketing somebody said, "4E is the best version of D&D ever!" (I think it was Mearls), that was taken as an insult by a loud (although not necessarily large) group of 3E fans. The myth of WotC "dissing" 3E fans during the 4E launch exists to this day, when nothing of the sort happened. The 4E team was simply excited about what they were doing, and honestly felt they were delivering the awesomest version of D&D ever (at the time). Never did any of them insult the fans by telling them 3E sucked or fans who preferred 3E to 4E were somehow damaged goods.

If Paizo eventually releases Pathfinder 2.0, I'm sure most fans will love it, although not all will. But Paizo will not withstand the level of internet hate that WotC does over each choice in game development.

Hell, we're mostly arguing over a small, FREE, not really necessary supplement to 5E and the level of hurt is catastrophically ridiculous!

WotC had a lot of goodwill. Unfortunately, they've gradually lost much of it in the intervening years - admittedly, not entirely through their own fault

Kinda my point. IMO, WotC's goodwill lasted about 5 seconds after they purchased TSR and D&D and went from being the underdog themselves to the "D&D Company". And when Hasbro purchased them . . . . all remaining traces of the small company done good were washed away (all perception, not necessarily reality).

 

[bmfrosty]

Yes I did.

Your comment "The priority list is god. All bow down to the priority list." seemed completely in line with numerous other the customers expect to be worshiped and are unreasonable and not worth having as customers.

I do hope you can see how I took it as parroting other comments.

If it was simply an inside joke, then I missed and I apologize.

I was really making a joke about priority lists. It wouldn't surprise me if they had a staff meeting every week and verified where everyone was on their projects and adjusted as needed, but I don't know how they run their business internally.

 

[delericho]

Kinda my point. IMO, WotC's goodwill lasted about 5 seconds after they purchased TSR and D&D and went from being the underdog themselves to the "D&D Company". And when Hasbro purchased them . . . . all remaining traces of the small company done good were washed away (all perception, not necessarily reality).

I was with you up until here. Because for me the high water mark was 2006, which was a good long way after the WotC buyout and even the Hasbro one (which actually predates 3e, though not by much).

 

[bmfrosty]

WotC is a division within a larger company

That's actually something I'd like to see clarification on.

What sort of autonomy does WotC have, and what sort of autonomy does the D&D product group have within WotC?

I don't think anyone here could answer that. Chris Sims or Jennifer Clarke Wilkes could maybe? Maybe they're NDAd. Maybe they don't post places like this.

 

[Wicht]

I'm not calling you a liar,

I never said you did.

I was expressing the opinion that my actual experiences over the past few years and in interacting with people make me question the accuracy of your situational assessment.

What's that got to do with anything? If you compare Paizo to Hasbro, Hasbro is bigger. If you compare Paizo to WotC, WotC is (probably) bigger. If you compare Paizo to the D&D team at WotC, Paizo is bigger. Who cares?

As we are talking about RPG industry leaders, then bringing non-rpg aspects of WotC's business is nothing but sleight-of-mind and irrelevant. If Paizo is bigger than WotC's RPG department, then your assertion that Paizo is a small fish compared to WotC in the arena of the RPG field is factually inaccurate. As I said to begin with, the situation has changed. Your assessment is about five years out of date as conventional wisdom and Paizo is at least a co-captain of the industry, sharing the leadership position with WotC. Right below them are FFG (and Green Ronin has done some very respectable things in recent years as well, though I don't think their sales are anywhere near the top 2 spots.)

Making a Coke to Shasta comparison is hardly accurate. We are in Coke and Pepsi territory. Sure Coke is #1 at the moment, but they have to take the competition seriously at this stage of the game.

 

[Dire Bare]

As we are talking about RPG industry leaders, then bringing non-rpg aspects of WotC's business is nothing but sleight-of-mind and irrelevant. If Paizo is bigger than WotC's RPG department, then your assertion that Paizo is a small fish compared to WotC in the arena of the RPG field is factually inaccurate. As I said to begin with, the situation has changed. Your assessment is about five years out of date as conventional wisdom and Paizo is at least a co-captain of the industry, sharing the leadership position with WotC. Right below them are FFG (and Green Ronin has done some very respectable things in recent years as well, though I don't think their sales are anywhere near the top 2 spots.)

You've missed my point, I think. I did state that Paizo is bigger than the D&D Team at WotC, which is a part of what you quoted. My point is that it does not matter. I still feel that how many employees a company has is irrelevant to the discussion. Paizo could have 100 times the personnel that D&D does, and it still wouldn't make them the industry leader or even a "co-captain". It's not company size, or how hard they work. It simply boils down to, IMO, overall sales and brand recognition. While technically possible, I really don't think Pathfinder will EVER eclipse D&D as the industry leading RPG, EVER. Not because D&D is better, as that's pretty subjective, but because D&D is the OG RPG.

Pathfinder is a beloved and best-selling RPG and probably will continue to be for quite some time, but it isn't serious competition to D&D.

 

[delericho]

You've missed my point, I think. I did state that Paizo is bigger than the D&D Team at WotC, which is a part of what you quoted. My point is that it does not matter. I still feel that how many employees a company has is irrelevant to the discussion. Paizo could have 100 times the personnel that D&D does, and it still wouldn't make them the industry leader or even a "co-captain". It's not company size, or how hard they work. It simply boils down to, IMO, overall sales and brand recognition. While technically possible, I really don't think Pathfinder will EVER eclipse D&D as the industry leading RPG, EVER. Not because D&D is better, as that's pretty subjective, but because D&D is the OG RPG.

Yep, this. For an awful lot of people, D&D = RPG and RPG = D&D. Heck, you'll find some people saying "we're playing D&D" when they're actually playing Pathfinder - I doubt you'll find the reverse.