7 Years of D&D Stories? And a "Big Reveal" Coming?

When asked what he was working on, WotC's Chris Perkins revealed a couple of juicy tidbits. They're not much, but they're certainly tantalizing. Initially, he said that "Our marketing team has a big reveal in the works", and followed that up separately with "Right now I'm working on the next seven years of D&D stories". What all that might mean is anybody's guess, but it sounds like there are plans for D&D stretching into the foreseeable future! Thanks to Barantor for the scoop!

 

[Umbran]

So your brother was, I would guess, introducing it to you as a simpler form of ADnD, a game which you could, in a sense, work yourself up to? Would that be a fair guess, or is it off the mark?

I don't know if the working up was planned. I think it was more, "Hey, my brothers might like this. But they are young, and AD&D is too complicated. Let's use a simpler game."

We did happen to like it, so when we were old enough, AD&D books became a no-brainer for X-mas one year.

 

[Wicht]

Yes, but Paizo didn't originally create the OGL. WotC seems to have been the first to openly license RPG content (I don't think any notable publisher used a creative commons license before them, someone correct me if I am wrong).

So, who is the "leader"? Who is creating more innovations? I don't think it is clearly one or the other.

I think we (speaking only for myself and you) may be using Leader in a different way. I don't necessarily mean innovator when I speak of an industry leader. Coke is an industry leader but they are hardly innovative.

And I have said from the outset that I think at the moment the industry has two leaders. Which, personally I think is a healthy sign.

 

[DEFCON 1]

And I have said from the outset that I think at the moment the industry has two leaders. Which, personally I think is a healthy sign.

And the irony as I see it is that I don't think anyone within the industry even really *cares* who the "Leader" is. It always seems to come down to all of us fans outside of it who keep debating who is in First Place, or Second Place, or whatever... while everyone within the industry wants everyone to do well, because inevitably it helps everyone in the end.

 

[Wicht]

And the irony as I see it is that I don't think anyone within the industry even really *cares* who the "Leader" is. It always seems to come down to all of us fans outside of it who keep debating who is in First Place, or Second Place, or whatever... while everyone within the industry wants everyone to do well, because inevitably it helps everyone in the end.

I want everyone to do well as both a fan and a writer. When I opine on who is serving as "an industry leader," I am not doing so because I have an emotionally vested interest in a particular team (though I do play Pathfinder) but because I think it interesting to observe how these things change and to analyze why they have changed. This does have a tendency to bleed into or flow out of various forum arguments between fans but I try to remain emotionally unattached from my own analysis of the situation if possible.

As far as "in industry" goes, on the one hand you are right in that it is not a matter of giving out prizes. On the other hand, it does behoove a person to pay attention to the market and where it is going (for instance, if WotC releases the OGL for 5e I will most certainly get up to speed on the game to be able to better produce material for it as I am certain that there will be a demand for it; as they have not I have not bothered). And sometimes the decision of one company is more likely to help everyone than the decisions of another company. Which is why there is a clamoring from other publishers for WotC to release an OGL and disappointment that they have not already. So the viewpoint is different but not the issue is not, I don't think, entirely unimportant.

And don't discount the possibility of publishers being fans also. It is a small community and a relatively small hobby.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yes, but Paizo didn't originally create the OGL. WotC seems to have been the first to openly license RPG content (I don't think any notable publisher used a creative commons license before them, someone correct me if I am wrong).

While you can use the qualifier 'notable' to exclude either or both of these if you like, FUDGE, which later led to FATE, was wide open from the beginning (1992), and Hero launched Fuzion, an open-source version of their system nominally combined with R.Talsorian's Interlock, in 1998.

D&D hasn't really innovated since 1974. But, it's kiinda *the* innovation of all RPG innovations, so it's not like it'll ever be out-innovated.

Paizo took the top spot while 4e was still a thing, well before the hiatus started

Not exactly. Piazo took the top spot in one quarter - the one quarter when D&D changed directions from 4e to Essentials. And it was another 3 before it consistently started doing so. By then, D&D had gone from 20+ releases a year down to 4, shortly thereafter, it went out of print.

4e - with the fanatical campaign of vitriol, lies, hatred and misinformation that was the edition war in full swing - beat out Pathfinder's big release and core books. Y'know, the core books that always sell best according to common industry wisdom.

Now, D&D's core books have it back on top. D&D fans, though, have a record of buying up the core quickly, and ignoring a lot of what follows, though, while Piazo's fans are a lot more consistent in their loyalty. Pathfinder could easily re-claim the top spot in in-store sales if it keeps up its rapid pace, its fans remain staunch in their commitment to buy absolutely everything released, and 5e just puts out two books a year.

I then remember the subtle change in language in the industry when people begin talking about the industry leader and it was clear who people were looking to for leadership. (hint: it was not WotC).

I remember that, too. It was the late 90s, and people thought WWGS was leading the industry in the vacuum left by TSR. Then WotC bought out TSR, and, in 2000, boom, 3.0, d20 OGL, and D&D was right back on top again.

But for RPGs divisions alone, Paizo beats out just about everyone else right now for company size, including WotC.

I don't doubt it. WotC's model right now is to produce & sell a few titles to a large number of D&D fans, and it's giving them the top spot. Paizo's is to produce and sell a large number of of titles, which requires more developers, and means lower margins, and that's giving them the #2 spot. The conclusion is clear: WotC may have more fans, but Paizo fans have greater brand loyalty, they eagerly buy each new release. (Unless they get to game 30 hours a week, I don't see how they can blow through that much material, that fast. Must be nice.)

Ultimately, though, even if Paizo permanently takes the Icv2 in-store sales lead in the $15million TTRPG market, it's still doing it with a version of D&D, just one that can't technically have D&D on the cover. Really, when thinking about which game is the biggest in the TTRPG hobby, D&D (all eds), Pathfinder, and OSR games should all be added together. They're all D&D in some very real sense - certainly they all are to the indifferent perceptions of the mainstream, for whom /all/ RPGs are D&D.

 

[neobolts]

What D&D has, that Pathfinder will never have is several years in which parents groups and and national news programs accuse it of corrupting the morals of the American youth.

This is the reason that D&D is seared into the American conscious.

Or if a diverse group of youngsters have a Saturday morning roller coaster mishap and end up in the magical land of Golarion.

 

[Wicht]

Not exactly. Piazo took the top spot in one quarter - the one quarter when D&D changed directions from 4e to Essentials. And it was another 3 before it consistently started doing so.

If you go strictly by the ICV2 numbers, you can make that case.

But there were some other indicators (anecdotal and observational) besides the ICV2 chart which gave one (me) the feeling that Pathfinder was pulling even with WotC if not outselling it in 2010. To buttress this claim (which relies largely on my own personal read of the situation), I would note that Lisa Stevens (who is a fairly straight shooter I think) is on record as saying that she knew from her own records and contacts that Pathfinder had pulled ahead of DnD before the ICV2 charts said it was so.

 

[Tony Vargas]

What D&D has, that Pathfinder will never have is several years in which parents groups and and national news programs accuse it of corrupting the morals of the American youth.

This is the reason that D&D is seared into the American conscious.

Well, that too, yes.

Maybe Paizo can secretly sponsor a Bothered About Pathfinder organization to whip up some hysteria?

 

[Tony Vargas]

If you go strictly by the ICV2 numbers, you can make that case.

If you don't go strictly by Icv2 numbers, you can't make the case that Pathfinder /ever/ pulled ahead of D&D.

 

[Wicht]

Ultimately, though, even if Paizo permanently takes the Icv2 in-store sales lead in the $15million TTRPG market, it's still doing it with a version of D&D, just one that can't technically have D&D on the cover. Really, when thinking about which game is the biggest in the TTRPG hobby, D&D (all eds), Pathfinder, and OSR games should all be added together. They're all D&D in some very real sense - certainly they all are to the indifferent perceptions of the mainstream, for whom /all/ RPGs are D&D.

That only goes so far.

As I said, I see evidence in my children of the shift in perceptions towards how the game is defined.