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The above is pretty much what I would have posted.
Minus all of the numbers and statistics and stuff.
If the math doesn't impress you (numbers, blah) just read through the moves and the order in which they were received. Always the right move when it was needed. And never less than 3 good moves out of a 5 move hand (and many, many 5 good move hands).
Is the above possible with a random generator? Of course. Likely, no.
If Sollir is innocent of the title, Bass Master (Supreme Fisher in You Bass-tard) then he is just the luckiest Bastard of us all.
This community is very nice, and appreciably reluctant to call out a cheater without evidence. But I feel (and obviously others do as well) that Sollir has been fishing without a license. The bastard.....
Minus all of the numbers and statistics and stuff.
If the math doesn't impress you (numbers, blah) just read through the moves and the order in which they were received. Always the right move when it was needed. And never less than 3 good moves out of a 5 move hand (and many, many 5 good move hands).
Is the above possible with a random generator? Of course. Likely, no.
If Sollir is innocent of the title, Bass Master (Supreme Fisher in You Bass-tard) then he is just the luckiest Bastard of us all.
This community is very nice, and appreciably reluctant to call out a cheater without evidence. But I feel (and obviously others do as well) that Sollir has been fishing without a license. The bastard.....
Left-handed Hummingbird
First Post
Three things:
1: Did you e-mail the fighters in question before you posted this?
At this time I don't want to judge whether your accusations are wrong and right (though I would certainly hate it if there was irregularities concerning a fight one of my characters had with one of the accused players characters), however, I think it's fair if the accused had a chance to respond to this before taking this to the public.
I don't know if, in fact, such correspondence has happened nor, if so, the response given, and I understand and truly appreciate that you wish to make sure that other fighters are aware of the irregularities.
Yet, I believe that even if they are guilty of the charges, people should be given a chance to redeem themselves, metaphorically speaking a yellow card or perhaps a two-minute penalty, before they are ostracized entirely.
Again, you're not the one on trial here, I appreciate what you did, but you asked how to deal with this, and the above is my humble opinion.
IF we are certain that irregularities have taken place in a fight it would be proper to regard such a fight as a forfeit by the irregular and a technical win by the regular player. If the irregularities aren't discovered immediately after the games, however, it poses serious chronological problems regarding the proper tier and rank of a character - and thus the validity of subsequent matches, and perhaps such technical wins should not have any influence on the rank and tier of the regular character, but instead only alter the wins vs losses ratio.
What to do about the irregular characters? Gosh, I think it's clear that such characters cannot remain in the game if their stats aren't proper. It would violate my sense of sportsmanship, that's for sure.
2: The problem of possible scams between two fighters. This could be a serious problem, for instance, if two players decided to pump up the ranking of the first player's character by letting it repeatedly pounce on the second player's character.
Now, Sash vs Sash is NOT inherently wrong (as you yourself point out) - it is minmaxing at it's fullest, but the rules were designed so that the Sash would wish to fight another Sash - just like Light vs Dark-fights benefit both in the long run.
3: Principles aside, I, personally, now consider Sollir on probation from this moment; I'll fight him, but not without judge-generated moves, and I won't accept him as judge. Sorry, Sollir, but those precautions stay until the air has been cleared. I'm sure you understand.
1: Did you e-mail the fighters in question before you posted this?
At this time I don't want to judge whether your accusations are wrong and right (though I would certainly hate it if there was irregularities concerning a fight one of my characters had with one of the accused players characters), however, I think it's fair if the accused had a chance to respond to this before taking this to the public.
I don't know if, in fact, such correspondence has happened nor, if so, the response given, and I understand and truly appreciate that you wish to make sure that other fighters are aware of the irregularities.
Yet, I believe that even if they are guilty of the charges, people should be given a chance to redeem themselves, metaphorically speaking a yellow card or perhaps a two-minute penalty, before they are ostracized entirely.
Again, you're not the one on trial here, I appreciate what you did, but you asked how to deal with this, and the above is my humble opinion.
IF we are certain that irregularities have taken place in a fight it would be proper to regard such a fight as a forfeit by the irregular and a technical win by the regular player. If the irregularities aren't discovered immediately after the games, however, it poses serious chronological problems regarding the proper tier and rank of a character - and thus the validity of subsequent matches, and perhaps such technical wins should not have any influence on the rank and tier of the regular character, but instead only alter the wins vs losses ratio.
What to do about the irregular characters? Gosh, I think it's clear that such characters cannot remain in the game if their stats aren't proper. It would violate my sense of sportsmanship, that's for sure.
2: The problem of possible scams between two fighters. This could be a serious problem, for instance, if two players decided to pump up the ranking of the first player's character by letting it repeatedly pounce on the second player's character.
Now, Sash vs Sash is NOT inherently wrong (as you yourself point out) - it is minmaxing at it's fullest, but the rules were designed so that the Sash would wish to fight another Sash - just like Light vs Dark-fights benefit both in the long run.
3: Principles aside, I, personally, now consider Sollir on probation from this moment; I'll fight him, but not without judge-generated moves, and I won't accept him as judge. Sorry, Sollir, but those precautions stay until the air has been cleared. I'm sure you understand.
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graydoom
First Post
LHH -- No, I did not email him before posting this. I debated whether or not to do that with myself for a long time before posting this, and in the end I decided not to.
IMO, the evidence is overwhelmingly against him, and I very much dbouted that anything would result from an email other than a denial, and being forewarned. Additionally, multiple others were already discussing this (in the chat room). So I decided to simply post this. That may have been the wrong decision... or it may have been the right one. I'm still unsure.
In the end, I simply that the community should see this -- if not my rhetoric, at least the statistics, which are by far the most significant thing in my post.
As I said, I'm still unsure if doing this was the right decision. Personally, I think it was... that's why I did it. *shrug*. Not much more I can say.
IMO, the evidence is overwhelmingly against him, and I very much dbouted that anything would result from an email other than a denial, and being forewarned. Additionally, multiple others were already discussing this (in the chat room). So I decided to simply post this. That may have been the wrong decision... or it may have been the right one. I'm still unsure.
In the end, I simply that the community should see this -- if not my rhetoric, at least the statistics, which are by far the most significant thing in my post.
As I said, I'm still unsure if doing this was the right decision. Personally, I think it was... that's why I did it. *shrug*. Not much more I can say.
Left-handed Hummingbird
First Post
It's a tough call, graydoom, and regardless of what I wrote above, I'm not sure I wouldn't have done exactly as you did.
I wrote about what the consequences of irregular play should be in my post above, but it strikes me that we also need to establish whether irregularities actually took place.
I propose that Sollir should get his say and then the master and grand master judges should act as jury and judge. I know I'm a softie, but I still think the judges should be lenient towards a repentant first offender, for instance stripping of rank and judgemanship, and marking the player as on probation - rather than throwing the player irrevocably out of the game.
I wrote about what the consequences of irregular play should be in my post above, but it strikes me that we also need to establish whether irregularities actually took place.
I propose that Sollir should get his say and then the master and grand master judges should act as jury and judge. I know I'm a softie, but I still think the judges should be lenient towards a repentant first offender, for instance stripping of rank and judgemanship, and marking the player as on probation - rather than throwing the player irrevocably out of the game.
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Sollir Furryfoot
Explorer
I honestly don't care what you may think but I think i'll leave regardless, I really don't think its right for someone to go through, taking countless hours to make someone look bad. I'm presenting my own defense however, since I want to show people how these arguments are just seemingly targeted for some reason.
The first post fails to mention that my opponent (who I will not say myself) had a total of 3 *yen* moves and 1 *yen+yen* move in the 1st match and 5 *yen* moves and 1 *yen+yen* move in the 2nd. Thats 1 *yen+yen* move more than me, however they don't mention this at all, although I must say they're trying to make me look bad-not my opponent.
Furthermore, anyone who's seen me in chatrooms have found that I never decline meowthbot generated moves although its a very rare coincidence-not many people who I win insults with use the Mb itself and its harder for me since the Meowthbot won't message me the moves to copy and paste because of the java client.
Not to mention that Graydoom was in the chatrooms the whole time, as was Jin Chi on several occasions and they didn't even mention any aggression towards me-apparently they have been nursing some kindof grudge to go to such lengths to post all these things and calculate them. Several people saw that I generated my hands immediately when both my opponent and I were in the chatrooms, leaving me little time, if any to generate 'multiple' hands or whatever. As for location of the days in my match vs. Kazz't and Ariel (2nd time through), I generated my hand before the judge declared what the masters said, 1 of my moves in there was already the location of the day-afterwards I used abilities like sneaky trick combined with arena fighter and unholy warrior to win extra points. I won my first match with turtle (yes, using judge-genned moves) in 1 round using sneaky trick and poison blade, nothing new-Gray has done it more than I. The second time through mastery of shadows and poison blade, however you may look at it I don't.
If you post everyone's matches and their hands and how many yen they got, and look at the statistics I wouldn't be as mad as I a now, since I'm probably leaving anyhow I'll tell a few things that have been bugging me. Nothing personal against the players-but how does it seem that everyone, Reiella and Graydoom for instance (btw Reiella, I know that you would never cheat...but this is an example), they were the top in their ranks in Yb 1.0 and now in Yb 2.0, could you call that suspicous? (However my thoughts is just perhaps the judges are a bit more lenient? thats not the right word but I think i'll use that for now)
Yb! is supposed to be a game of luck and very little strategy, and as you said, when it all comes down to it-its the person who judges. Farewell and goodbye, to those who I know and have spent hours literally chatting with in this game I hope theres no hard feelings, and to those who accuse me of so many things-think what you want. Pick a person to be a martyr and crucify them-just trying to get whatever point they have across I guess.
The first post fails to mention that my opponent (who I will not say myself) had a total of 3 *yen* moves and 1 *yen+yen* move in the 1st match and 5 *yen* moves and 1 *yen+yen* move in the 2nd. Thats 1 *yen+yen* move more than me, however they don't mention this at all, although I must say they're trying to make me look bad-not my opponent.
Furthermore, anyone who's seen me in chatrooms have found that I never decline meowthbot generated moves although its a very rare coincidence-not many people who I win insults with use the Mb itself and its harder for me since the Meowthbot won't message me the moves to copy and paste because of the java client.
Not to mention that Graydoom was in the chatrooms the whole time, as was Jin Chi on several occasions and they didn't even mention any aggression towards me-apparently they have been nursing some kindof grudge to go to such lengths to post all these things and calculate them. Several people saw that I generated my hands immediately when both my opponent and I were in the chatrooms, leaving me little time, if any to generate 'multiple' hands or whatever. As for location of the days in my match vs. Kazz't and Ariel (2nd time through), I generated my hand before the judge declared what the masters said, 1 of my moves in there was already the location of the day-afterwards I used abilities like sneaky trick combined with arena fighter and unholy warrior to win extra points. I won my first match with turtle (yes, using judge-genned moves) in 1 round using sneaky trick and poison blade, nothing new-Gray has done it more than I. The second time through mastery of shadows and poison blade, however you may look at it I don't.
If you post everyone's matches and their hands and how many yen they got, and look at the statistics I wouldn't be as mad as I a now, since I'm probably leaving anyhow I'll tell a few things that have been bugging me. Nothing personal against the players-but how does it seem that everyone, Reiella and Graydoom for instance (btw Reiella, I know that you would never cheat...but this is an example), they were the top in their ranks in Yb 1.0 and now in Yb 2.0, could you call that suspicous? (However my thoughts is just perhaps the judges are a bit more lenient? thats not the right word but I think i'll use that for now)
Yb! is supposed to be a game of luck and very little strategy, and as you said, when it all comes down to it-its the person who judges. Farewell and goodbye, to those who I know and have spent hours literally chatting with in this game I hope theres no hard feelings, and to those who accuse me of so many things-think what you want. Pick a person to be a martyr and crucify them-just trying to get whatever point they have across I guess.
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graydoom
First Post
On taking countless hours: I thought about this a lot, and took my time because I did not want to make any accusation without accurate statistics to back it up.
On your opponent: Sollir, I don't think you were around at the time, but your opponent has had his own issues with this. I avoid mentioning your opponent because your opponent is a separate issue.
On why Rei and I got to high ranks: In YB1, I got to a high rank purely because #47 hadn't thought out the Sash well enough, and I was able to gain ranks very quickly. In YB2, it's because I play a lot and YB is weighted so that you tend to go up in rank after a time. More fights generally means a higher rank.
On nursing a grugde: I try not to. Doesn't help anything. As I said above, I took the time because I believed that this was a worthwhile effort, and wanted to be able to back this up.
On counting moves generated before the location was that: I factored that in. Due to one signature location being posted before the masters text, and due to two more becoming signature locations because of Arena Fighter (because of Sneaky Trick), I did not count those three in my statistics. As for Kal's statistics, I have no idea as I was not involved in those.
On going over everyone's stats: *shrug*. Yours stood out in many ways. The sheer number of yen moves just when they were most useful, the chains of good moves, and so on. Combined with a number of other people noticing it is what made me, at least, compile your stats. If I see someone else posting such improbable moves, I'll compile their stats too. If anyone had pointed me to someone who they thought was fishing and the threads they thought it was done in, I'd be willing to collect their stats too.
On crucifying people: I try not to. I have posted this because I do believe that you are a fisher, due to the weight of the evidence. I have no reason to "crucify" you, or make a "martyr" out of you, and I would have done this just the same if anyone else had posted such improbable hands.
Sorry to see you go. Good luck in your future endeavors.
On your opponent: Sollir, I don't think you were around at the time, but your opponent has had his own issues with this. I avoid mentioning your opponent because your opponent is a separate issue.
On why Rei and I got to high ranks: In YB1, I got to a high rank purely because #47 hadn't thought out the Sash well enough, and I was able to gain ranks very quickly. In YB2, it's because I play a lot and YB is weighted so that you tend to go up in rank after a time. More fights generally means a higher rank.
On nursing a grugde: I try not to. Doesn't help anything. As I said above, I took the time because I believed that this was a worthwhile effort, and wanted to be able to back this up.
On counting moves generated before the location was that: I factored that in. Due to one signature location being posted before the masters text, and due to two more becoming signature locations because of Arena Fighter (because of Sneaky Trick), I did not count those three in my statistics. As for Kal's statistics, I have no idea as I was not involved in those.
On going over everyone's stats: *shrug*. Yours stood out in many ways. The sheer number of yen moves just when they were most useful, the chains of good moves, and so on. Combined with a number of other people noticing it is what made me, at least, compile your stats. If I see someone else posting such improbable moves, I'll compile their stats too. If anyone had pointed me to someone who they thought was fishing and the threads they thought it was done in, I'd be willing to collect their stats too.
On crucifying people: I try not to. I have posted this because I do believe that you are a fisher, due to the weight of the evidence. I have no reason to "crucify" you, or make a "martyr" out of you, and I would have done this just the same if anyone else had posted such improbable hands.
Sorry to see you go. Good luck in your future endeavors.
Kalanyr
Explorer
No Sig Loc's of anykind where included in the above stats, simply because the random nature of Un(Holy) Warrior/Arena Fighter makes the tallying pointless.
I am unsure whether or not you are fishing or lucky which is why I reserved judgement. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I just posted the Statistics to give a more overall view than 1 fight. I do not know and can oly let others reach their own decisions.
I am unsure whether or not you are fishing or lucky which is why I reserved judgement. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I just posted the Statistics to give a more overall view than 1 fight. I do not know and can oly let others reach their own decisions.
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