A 10 level Prestige Class that gets 1d6 Sneak Attack damage every level: Unbalanced?

[the Jester]

Technik, my initial feelings on this one were that it was unbalanced but you make a persuasive case.

In my particular campaign, where sneak attack is frequently a major factor in our combats (we have a tricked-out epic-level invisible blade pc in my group), I think it could be a game breaker when the focus is combat. I dunno quite how to fix my concerns, but I'd probably do something to weaken the class in other areas.

I am tentatively saying that this could be balanced though, after heavy thought on the subject.

 

[gamecat]

The 7 dice remix seems a bit better. My only issue with this PrC now is the "dark arts"... I think it's too flexible for a PrC.

Perhaps you could get around this one by justifying it ingame - the Assassins of the City of Kashin are stealthy wisps of men, leaving broken bodies and rent hearts in an invisible wake, following the stealth path; The Enders of Tradesjunction are adept spellcasters, obsfusicating (is that a word?) mind and sense with spell before ending life with steel, following the spellcasting path... etc. etc.

Overall, the remix is better, because the SRD assassin is wonky to the point of a straight rogue being a better assassin.

 

[Technik4]

My only issue with this PrC now is the "dark arts"... I think it's too flexible for a PrC.

Indeed. Like the Assasin PrC from the DMG, I think this would mostly be an NPC PrC - not that there is anything preventing a PC from taking it, but generally NPCs are more dedicated and hang around 1 area long enough to get fame as an assasin really would. Any resulting guilds would probably encourage the same 'dark arts' or path in most of their members.

For instance, a guild of assasins based on the Death Attack Art:

Leader: Rog10/Asn10 (Death Attack A,B,C)
Mage: Wiz15/Asn5 (Spellcasting A,B)
Specialty Guy: Brd8/Asn10 (Poison A,B,C)
Typical Member: Rog5/Asn5 (Death Attack A,B)

The Leader personally trains new members, the mage helps keep them hidden and gets them in/out of situations (and has personally specialized in Ray attacks), the specialist gets called in when they want the blame to be spread to someone else, and the typical members are learning their trade eventually to become powerful freelancers, usurp the guild leadership, or start their own guild somewhere else.

You could as easily have that same guild with a straight wizard and a straight bard, but I think it fits the flavor better that everyone in the guild can get something out of the PrC.

Overall, the remix is better, because the SRD assassin is wonky to the point of a straight rogue being a better assassin.

Agreed.

I am tentatively saying that this could be balanced though, after heavy thought on the subject.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! At this point I'm very happy with how everything has turned out as far as bonuses, my biggest concern is mitigating it, but I don't want to raise the pre-reqs using filler content. I think there would be a profound change in how you look at other members of your race after snuffing out so many lives, but I can't find a mechanic that penalizes you for that (that makes sense) and in a game like D&D, I'm not sure you would feel vastly different from the typical slaughtering adventurer.

Hopefully the finishing touches will be put on soon.

Technik

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I don't personally believe that an Assassin PrC is necessary in the first place. There's too little distinction between the Assassin PrC and the Rogue base class, and the main area of differentiation is a small spell list and a very confusing, near-useless insta-kill mechanic.

For comparison, look at the Thief and Assassin classes in 1e; as far as I can tell, the Assassin class only existed so that Half-Orcs could have a class they could have unlimited advancement in, since the Thief belonged to Halflings.

In 2e, Assassin was a Thief kit that involved very little modification.

Seems clear to me that a 3e Assassin is nothing more than an Evil Rogue with a penchant for poison.

 

[GimbleRaulnor]

Seems clear to me that a 3e Assassin is nothing more than an Evil Rogue with a penchant for poison.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Technik4]

In my experience there aren't many PrCs that couldn't be easily defined as a base class with a couple 'penchants' or special abilities. Yet they proliferate like nothing else.

Do you need the Assasin PrC? No. According to the DMG, all PrCs are optional by nature. However, in a campaign where there are PrCs like Arcane Trickster, Mystic Theurge, and Eldritch Knight, I don't see why a modification to the Assasin class should have to stick so close to the rogue class.

Technik

 

[Nifft]

I'm thinking of making a PrC for monsters (devils, yugoloths, hags, chokers, phase spiders, yuan-ti, nagas, etc.) who are the chosen assassins of their respective dark powers. The DMG Assassin is really lame for that use. Ghost Faced Killer is somewhat better, but not great for Phase Spiders and other critters who already have access to the Ether.

For these critters, the PrC I'd really like would have these features:

1/ Full BAB. Natural Attacks provide a limit on their claw/claw/bite routine, so I'm not worried about displacing Fighter as a class.
2/ No weapon proficencies. Who cares?
3/ Qualify as a 5-6 HD monster.
4/ Better Sneak Attack progression than a Rogue.
5/ Some kind of poison bonus for critters with natural poison; and some kind of poison access for critters without.
6/ Racial Substitution levels for races with affinity for certain kinds of magic -- e.g. for a Salamander Assassin: Immolating Blow (Su): When you kill a foe with a Coup de Grace or via a failed Death by Massive Damage save, you additionally immolate your foe's body, leaving only a fine grey ash behind (as disintegrate would). Foes immune or resistant to fire do not immolate.

Anyway... just my feature request list. I'm not sure it's practical to do all that in one PrC, but I hope someone will try.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I couldn't believe that anyone could possibly think this could be even close to balanced, so I'm leaving it up to you.

At that point I think you might as well give it d12 HP and 8 skill points a level cause your sure not going to be hurting its balance any... (Way to powerful)

 

[Technik4]

At that point I think you might as well give it d12 HP and 8 skill points a level cause your sure not going to be hurting its balance any... (Way to powerful)

Thanks for the constructive criticism! Did you have such useful observations when 3.5 came out too? [/sarcasm]

Technik

 

[Nifft]

Thanks for the constructive criticism! Did you have such useful observations when 3.5 came out too? [/sarcasm]

Technik

T4, he might have been responding to the (prejudicial) thread title -- I think it's time to let this one die and start anew.

I'm working on adapting a variant of your +7d6 sneak attack PrC into a Vile Assassin for my 3.5e BoVD thread.

-- N